What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?
biffvernon wrote:Most good guys and some bad guys want to remain; some bad guys want to leave. Be like the good guys. #EU
Sounds like a bit of a subjective view to me, and it doesn't look good when people start making statements, appearing claiming to be fact, which are just founded on a personal agenda. Or did you mean something else?
Objective fact. People who want to leave: Boris, Farage, Gove, Lawson, Ridley, Putin, le Pen.....
Subjective fact. The above are bad guys (and a gal).
Objective fact. Good people who want to remain... Lucas, ... oh there are too many for me to bother listing.
As Kenneal said earlier, you do seem to have the ability to reduce the intellectual content of a debate to, well, in this case drivel. Just because people views that differ from yours doesen't mean they are "bad" nor does it make them "good" just because they agree with you.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
biffvernon wrote:Most good guys and some bad guys want to remain; some bad guys want to leave. Be like the good guys. #EU
Sounds like a bit of a subjective view to me, and it doesn't look good when people start making statements, appearing claiming to be fact, which are just founded on a personal agenda. Or did you mean something else?
Objective fact. People who want to leave: Boris, Farage, Gove, Lawson, Ridley, Putin, le Pen.....
Subjective fact. The above are bad guys (and a gal).
Objective fact. Good people who want to remain... Lucas, ... oh there are too many for me to bother listing.
woodburner wrote:As Kenneal said earlier, you do seem to have the ability to reduce the intellectual content of a debate to, well, in this case drivel. Just because people views that differ from yours doesen't (sic) mean they are "bad" nor does it make them "good" just because they agree with you.
My take home is that it's too close to call, however 'leave' do seem to have momentum on their side. The Scottish referendum polls suggested a much closer result than we ended up with though. It's pretty clear Scotland and NI will vote strongly to remain - who know's how that'll work out if UK votes leave. New Indy-Scotland ref and a united Ireland!?
My take home is that it's too close to call, however 'leave' do seem to have momentum on their side. The Scottish referendum polls suggested a much closer result than we ended up with though. It's pretty clear Scotland and NI will vote strongly to remain - who know's how that'll work out if UK votes leave. New Indy-Scotland ref and a united Ireland!?
I doubt there will be another Scottish independence referendum any time soon. It could only happen with consent from a UK government, and I can't see any potential UK government giving that consent under any circumstances. The SNP can wail like banshees. It will not make any difference.
Graph of poll of polls is interesting though - yes, it does look like the momentum is with leave, and that is before the effect of Obama's intervention registers.
'Bremain' do seem to have the upper hand after King Obama's speech the other day.
Farage is currently on BBC News giving one of his solid rage-fests. He does seem to be attacking on all the right points ie impacts of unlimited migration from the EU on crime rates, social cohesion, drain on resources, drop in per-capita GDP etc....all good stuff.
Let's hope he can give the Leave campaign the shot in the arm it needs.
EU Parliament have just voted to criminalise corporate whistle blowers supposedly to protect trade secrets but in reality to stop things like the recent leaks over money laundering/tax evasion. Just goes to show where the EU Parliament's interests lie.
clv101 wrote:My take home is that it's too close to call, however 'leave' do seem to have momentum on their side. The Scottish referendum polls suggested a much closer result than we ended up with though. It's pretty clear Scotland and NI will vote strongly to remain - who know's how that'll work out if UK votes leave. New Indy-Scotland ref and a united Ireland!?
I am not sure any of the polls consider the millions of UK citizens who live in the EU - who have a vote if they left less than 15 years ago.
AutomaticEarth wrote:'He does seem to be attacking on all the right points ie impacts of unlimited migration from the EU on crime rates, social cohesion, drain on resources, drop in per-capita GDP etc....all good stuff.
That, of course, arises from our separate membership of the EEA - not that the MSM have spotted this.
