Horrific solution to feeding too many people

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Apr 2016, 14:30

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote: So, why do arteries get blocked with plaque?
This is a good question. Having a look at a variety of info on wikipedia, it seems that high cholesterol is not the cause of arterial plaque, but that a high cholesterol diet may simply make it more available in the bloodstream for conversion (oxidation and eventual consumption by macrophages) to what contributes to the plaque. The reason why the lining of the arteries changes in a way that leads to this development (an inflammatory response) is not yet understood; maybe high blood glucose levels are involved, or some researchers have even suggested it might be caused by an infection!

Reading further, it seems that even the often promoted 'Mediterranean diet' might not be the reason folks there have less cardiovascular problems after all; it might just be that they get more sun!

So, while I'm sure woodburner will have more to say on this one, it seems to me that we don't really know much at all. We know what happens, but not why. Pretty amazing.

That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 14 Apr 2016, 15:05

I can't explain it, I can only relate what I have read. To unerstand what goes on you have to perform mental acrobatics. Much of what is in the mainstream confuses cause with association. The books I have mentioned in previous posts are a good starting point. Some care may be needed with wiki pages as it could depend on who was the last one editing it.

I'll post another link later.

Automaton · Post by **Automaton** » 14 Apr 2016, 15:39

emordnilap wrote: That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).

That's very interesting. And imagine what your cholesterol levels would be if you weren't vegan! Have you tried altering your diet to see if it makes a difference? Decreasing carbs or fat, those sorts of things?

Automaton · Post by **Automaton** » 14 Apr 2016, 15:46

woodburner wrote: Some care may be needed with wiki pages as it could depend on who was the last one editing it.

Quite true; it's always worth reading a few related pages, as they often contradict (which I feel gives a better picture, even if a frustrating one).

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:02

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote: That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).
That's very interesting. And imagine what your cholesterol levels would be if you weren't vegan! While trying not to get too personal... were you investigated for symptoms, or just because the levels were so high?

It was investigatory, based on odd pains behind the sternum. It turned out to be muscular. Lesson: get up from desk every 15 minutes and walk around!

The doctors and nurses were intrigued by my total lack of plaque, which "should" stand at around 50% blockage at my age

; they lost interest with an 'aah!' when I mentioned my diet.

Automaton · Post by **Automaton** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:06

emordnilap wrote: It was investigatory, based on odd pains behind the sternum. It turned out to be muscular. Lesson: get up from desk every 15 minutes and walk around!

Sorry, I just edited my previous post because I felt I was being a bit too personal, and you replied at the same time!

I changed it to ask if you'd tried altering your diet to lower your cholesterol levels?

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:07

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote: That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).
That's very interesting. And imagine what your cholesterol levels would be if you weren't vegan! Have you tried altering your diet to see if it makes a difference? Decreasing carbs or fat, those sorts of things?

Diet has very little effect on cholesterol levels.

http://youtu.be/8ls9HWRxvMo

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:15

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote: It was investigatory, based on odd pains behind the sternum. It turned out to be muscular. Lesson: get up from desk every 15 minutes and walk around!
Sorry, I just edited my previous post because I felt I was being a bit too personal, and you replied at the same time!

I changed it to ask if you'd tried altering your diet to lower your cholesterol levels?

What woodburner says - my diet has no effect on cholesterol levels, 95% organic, 100% plant-based, little fried food, moderate alcohol (organic when possible) and I've no real sweet tooth. I get a fair bit of exercise, which might help: swimming, cycling, gym, work round the house, that sort of thing.

If I was actually consuming animal cholesterol it might make a difference but I don't intend to experiment.

My body produces the cholesterol it needs, which just happens to be higher than 'normal'.

Automaton · Post by **Automaton** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:27

emordnilap wrote: If I was actually consuming animal cholesterol it might make a difference but I don't intend to experiment.

My body produces the cholesterol it needs, which just happens to be higher than 'normal'.

Yip, that's what I figured, I just thought it might be interesting anecdotally, given that you are a bit different from the norm.

Automaton · Post by **Automaton** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:42

woodburner wrote: Diet has very little effect on cholesterol levels.

http://youtu.be/8ls9HWRxvMo

But it does have an effect, as your video link mentions. It just doesn't seem to matter (with relation to CHD, anyway, as he shows pretty clearly).

Crazy business.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 06 May 2016, 18:00

Put it this way: heart-wise, I'm right on the edge of the possible. The care that has been lavished upon me with a view to keeping me in the Renewable state to which I am accustomed, is nothing short of awesome.

And yet at no time, in over 1/2 a century of check-ups, in the care of people in a dozen different places, has ANYBODY seen fit to measure my levels of Cholesterol, nor advise me to aim to lower them.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 06 May 2016, 18:54

That says a lot about cholesterol level! Either that or about the state of knowledge of those treating you!

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 06 May 2016, 19:15

I think we can safely assume they all knew what they were doing

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 06 May 2016, 21:40

They were probably looking after you rather than looking after maximising their practice's income.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 06 May 2016, 21:52

According to an article in today's New Scientist one biome (gut bacteria) are affected by some 67 so far identified things including one's preference for dark or milk chocolate. I extrapolate unwarrantedly from the research to say that dark chocolate is what my bugs prefer and I'm happy to oblige them.