Jihad Watch

[johnhemming2]

It is perfectly legitimate to point out general problems with Islam without implying that every single muslim is a problem.

Sadly it is clearly implicit. Particularly to Muslims.

But that's the essence of the problem, John. Mainstream, "non-problem" muslims do not accept that the jihadis are actually motivated by real Islam. Leaving them alone because they aren't blowing people up doesn't solve the problem, because they need to accept that Islam needs to be reformed.

Hence you are seeing all Muslims as a problem rather than just a sub-set.

[johnhemming2]

This is an interesting blog on the death of Asad Shah, the Glasgow shopkeeper, who was killed before Easter by another Muslim. Apparently he was an Ahmadi Muslim, a group that formally rejects the concept of Jihad, and is widely dispised by mainstream Muslims. He is one of the bad Musllims that Jihadis are encouraged to kill. So much for Islam, the peaceful religion!

The Ahmadiyya have another prophet and hence their approach is distinct from Islam in the same way Muslims are disctinct from Christianity. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, but not the last one.

I don't think there is much of a difference between the concept of Jihad as far as the Ahmaddiya are concerned as to Muslims more generally. I accept that people like Daesh have a much broader definition.

Jihad in its proper definition really means striving to do the right thing and is not necessarily violent.

[biffvernon]

More importantly, we know very little about Tanveer Ahmed, the 32 year-old attacker from Yorkshire, but it safest to assume that he is a disturbed psychopath for whom the mental health-care provision proved inadequate. Generalisation to large ethnic or religious groups amounts to incitement to racial or religious hatred.

Listen to Sughra Ahmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03pgx4q

[kenneal - lagger]

More importantly, we know very little about Tanveer Ahmed, the 32 year-old attacker from Yorkshire, but it safest to assume that he is a disturbed psychopath for whom the mental health-care provision proved inadequate. Generalisation to large ethnic or religious groups amounts to incitement to racial or religious hatred.

Listen to Sughra Ahmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03pgx4q

As you said Biff "More importantly, we know very little about Tanveer Ahmed, the 32 year-old attacker from Yorkshire,". On that basis surely, for our own safety, we should assume that there might be a conspiracy behind this murder and it should be investigated with the full force of our legal system. It should not, like the Rotherham child abuse scandal, be swept under the carpet on the basis that "Generalisation to large ethnic or religious groups amounts to incitement to racial or religious hatred."

We have been down that route before because of people like you, Biff Vernon, and thousands of young girls have been completely unnecessarily put through hell. People like you don't seem to have learned that appeasement only encourages the bad behaviour. Do we turn our back on FGM, forced marriage and other abominations that have been imported into the UK from Third World countries whose cultures are still in the Middle Ages? Or do we insist that those who want to live in our country because it's such a great place abide by our conventions to keep it a great place to live in freedom with no fear?

It has been falsely insinuated that I am a racist for many years because of my perfectly intellectually sound objections to mass immigration on the grounds of sustainability so your new, equally false, insinuations of illegality cut no ice with me. Other people have said enough for now so I will say no more.

[AutomaticEarth]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35944661

More from the RFP (Religion for peace)

[kenneal - lagger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35944661

More from the RFP (Religion for peace)

We are now stuck with a nutter who will brood on the "injustice" of his imprisonment, probably incite others to violence inside, and come out even more extreme than he was when he went in. Perhaps we should have let him go to Syria and then "droned" him as an act of the war that he, himself, had declared there. Problem over.

[biffvernon]

As you said Biff "More importantly, we know very little about Tanveer Ahmed, the 32 year-old attacker from Yorkshire,". On that basis surely, for our own safety, we should assume that there might be a conspiracy behind this murder and it should be investigated with the full force of our legal system. It should not, like the Rotherham child abuse scandal, be swept under the carpet on the basis that "Generalisation to large ethnic or religious groups amounts to incitement to racial or religious hatred."

We have been down that route before because of people like you, Biff Vernon, and thousands of young girls have been completely unnecessarily put through hell. People like you don't seem to have learned that appeasement only encourages the bad behaviour. Do we turn our back on FGM, forced marriage and other abominations that have been imported into the UK from Third World countries whose cultures are still in the Middle Ages? Or do we insist that those who want to live in our country because it's such a great place abide by our conventions to keep it a great place to live in freedom with no fear?

It has been falsely insinuated that I am a racist for many years because of my perfectly intellectually sound objections to mass immigration on the grounds of sustainability so your new, equally false, insinuations of illegality cut no ice with me. Other people have said enough for now so I will say no more.

Excellent post. Biff is doing a lot of damage to this forum. I thought we would have learned our lesson with that comedian 3rdRock but Biff seems have to have taken over his mantle. As LJ has pointed out, I'm surprised that Biff has not been pulled up for his posts.

Well that's two more PS members whose posts I won't be reading in the future. Maybe you two should do as much campaigning against FGM and the rest as I have done rather than posting libels.

Of course the easiest thing in the world would be for me to stop posting here, but that would be giving in to the bullies, the rude, the liars, the haters.

[biffvernon]

Caitlin Moran has recorded a scathing video response to refute the argument refugees in Europe are to blame for the Brussels terror attacks.

The columnist and author tells those who blame the tragedy on what she describes as “bleeding heart liberals letting terrorists pretending to be refugees into Europe,” and debunks the reason why they are fleeing to the west.

“In the first instance they are saving their own lives and that of their families, obviously they are acting with the understandable and universal desire to not die horribly or to live miserably at shattered hospitals and schools, bombing raids and hungry,” Moran hits out during the fiery video.

In the wake of the Belgian terror attacks the 40-year-old received abuse for Tweeting that the terrorists are the people that the refugees are running away from.

Me and Caitlin Moran then.

Watch the video: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/c ... edition=uk&

[Little John]

....It's OK to make mistakes, Biff. It's not so good to continue making the same mistakes long after they've been exposed as mistakes, because you aren't willing to admit that you made a mistake.....

For me, the problem is even simpler than that. People can believe anything they want and they are welcome to broadcast what they believe here or anywhere else. Though, if they are incapable of taking criticism, they might be best advised to broadcast their opinions to others of a like minded inclination.

For me, though, what I cannot abide is when someone, in the pursuit of disseminating their opinions to others, use disingenuity and lies, particularly about the motives of others with whom they disagree and particularly when the lies and disingenuity involves impugning the morality of those others. It's a thoroughly dishonest and nasty little tactic and is found more often than not, in the world of politicians and is illustrative of a bloated ego that has an unpleasant disdain for the intelligence of its audience. In short, it is both morally and intellectually objectionable.

I don't, at the end of the day, care that Biff Vernon hold views that I consider to be completely stupid on, for example, the migrant crisis. I mean.....I do care, but I do not take it personally that he holds these views. My only job, if it were merely that we were talking about here, would be to refute them with arguments of my own. The issue that I do take personally, however, is the nasty and thoroughly dishonest means by which he attempts to further his position.

[biffvernon]

thousands of young girls have been completely unnecessarily put through hell.

So, Ken, you'll be supporting Esther Addley's call to support the women who have suffered so abominably at the hands of Daesh?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... thern-iraq

Campaigners have called on the British government to grant asylum to at least 100 women and girls who escaped after being kidnapped and raped by Islamic State militants in northern Iraq.

Isis fighters have abducted thousands of girls from ethnic minority communities in northern Iraq and forced them into sexual slavery since overrunning the area in 2014.

Although many hundreds have managed to escape or have been rescued, according to Kurdish regional authorities, they are often deeply traumatised and face uncertain futures on returning to their communities.

Jacqueline Isaac, a lawyer and campaigner who works with escapees in refugee camps in northern Iraq, has called on Britain and other western countries to offer asylum and psychological support to 100 girls.

[Little John]

Not by default, no. because we cannot save the world Biff Vernon. What I am saying is that the desire to protect and welcome into our country everyone who is wishing to escape everything from immediate danger and oppression right through to merely escaping extreme economic hardship. whilst laudable, becomes a danger for the rest of us when people who advocate what you are advocating do not seem to be capable or willing to indicate at what point, for practical reasons, you would draw the line. For me, the state of the world right now is already bringing that line into clear and unambiguous view. Obviously, there is an augment to be had about where exactly it is drawn. But, unless people like you are prepared to accept that such a line even exists, rational debate becomes extremely difficult. Furthermore, when people like you resort to the nasty and dishonest tactics I have already mentioned, such debate becomes quite impossible.

[snow hope]

Well that's two more PS members whose posts I won't be reading in the future. Maybe you two should do as much campaigning against FGM and the rest as I have done rather than posting libels.

Do you not realise how childish this comment is?

Of course the easiest thing in the world would be for me to stop posting here, but that would be giving in to the bullies, the rude, the liars, the haters.

Nobody has asked you to stop posting. More and more people simply see the disingenuous nature of your posts. I suppose nobody really minds seeing you digging a deeper and deeper hole....

In fact it reminds me of the saying, "when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do sir?" Well we can all see what you do Biff - you bury your head, you say you will not read their posts and you say you will not respond to them. In fact you ignore their points and questions - I wonder at what age does a child stop doing this?

[kenneal - lagger]

So, Ken, you'll be supporting Esther Addley's call to support the women who have suffered so abominably at the hands of Daesh?

Yes, Biff, I will. Because they are genuine asylum seekers. I believe that they will be at risk of further harm in any Islamic country as the victims of rape, in those countries, seem to be held to be at fault and to be the guilty ones!

I do not support the Islamification of our country and I do not support the mass migration of people into this country. I do support aid to asylum seekers, people in distress for the various reasons set out in law, according to the law and that is in the first safe country that they come to. I am as distressed by this situation as any other right minded person. I do not however abandon all reason as I feel equally distressed by the suffering that many of the poorer people of this country are subjected to because of the high cost of housing and the lack of job and training opportunities for the indigenous population because of the ease and cheapness of employing suitably qualified migrants instead.

I don't know why I am replying to this as Biff won't read my post. Perhaps Chris could pass the message on, please.

[kenneal - lagger]

I have discussed with Adam2, the other active Mod on this forum, about what to do about this thread and we have decided to leave the content as is but to move both this thread and the Immigrant Watch thread to the Off Topic forum where hopefully it will not deter others from partaking in the very important discussions that we have elsewhere on this board.

As I have said elsewhere I consider that that these topics have a great deal to do with the sustainability that we are all interested in but some people seem unable to grasp that fact of to admit to it. So move these topics we must.

[Lord Beria3]

Biff - I respect your view but I don't agree with them.

My understanding of your case, correct me if I am wrong, is that there is nothing specifically within the theology of Islam that encourages or contributes to extremism, intolerance and fundamentalism (or Islam is no different from any other religion - all are equally absurd in your opinion) any more than any other religion.

I have stated before that I disagree with that case. There are theologically problematic issues within the Koranic texts which can justify violence, extremism and the promotion of violent jihad against non-believers. It is also the case that other parts of the Islamic foundation texts call for tolerance, peace and "peaceful" jihad - and thankfully the majority of Muslims live the "peaceful'" interpretation of Islam.

if you look at the New Testament, Christ never calls for violence, Christian "jihad" or hatred towards non-Christians. It is true that Christian states throughout history have done horrific things in the name of Christianity, but there was never any theological justification for such acts of violence or aggression. It is true that Islam can reform but to do that, it needs to reform, like a cancerous cell, the bits within the Koranic texts that could justify violence and extremism. If you wish to read more about the subject, I suggest you read this article http://atimes.com/2015/12/violent-and-peaceful-islam/).

My second understanding of discussions on Islam are that you don't think that there is a cultural element, inherent within the attitudes within modern Islamic communities, that make it more likely and acceptable to condone violence against woman, young girls etc

For you, the fact that there seems to be a big problem of child abuse of vulnerable young girls from men within the Muslim communities is just a coincidence and nothing more. You do not accept that there is a cultural factor at work here - e.g. a community which at times treats girls who don't behave "modestly" as nothing more than prostitutes to be abused and treated with contempt. This is directly linked to the conservative sexual mores promoted by Islamic clerics and community elders.

Indeed, for you, trying to link individual cases of child abuse to religion, is a form of religious hatred.

Correct me if I am wrong with my assumptions about your thinking.