Migrant watch (merged topic)

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 30 Mar 2016, 17:31

biffvernon wrote:What is the difference in temperature during the heating season between Edinburgh and London? I'd guess about 3°?

Edinburgh may only be 3° on average but it always seems a lot colder. I can accept ken's stat easily. Great city though - I'd choose to live there, over London, any time.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 31 Mar 2016, 04:00

biffvernon wrote:What is the difference in temperature during the heating season between Edinburgh and London? I'd guess about 3°?
(This is interesting, but rather off topic as it is not relevant to migration - unless a lot of Londoners flee north or the border.)

The heating season in Scotland is also longer and the day length shorter and if you read my piece you would see what relevance it has to this thread. But then you're not interested in the sustainability of your proposals. That would cause you embarrassment.

It may have a relevance to many people as they move north to get away from the Islamic States of London and Bradford in the future.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 31 Mar 2016, 08:11

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_aud ... s/35932120

Fascinating 3 minute interview with the president of Afghanistan. He first criticises the Germans, for "lowering the bar", by which he means encouraging people to leave Afghanistan to try to get to Europe, even though their lives were not in danger (he compares to Syria, where people lives really were in danger). He then criticises the migrants themselves, for abandoning the country that has invested in them and having no commitment (in other words, if life is going to get better in Afghanistan, the people need to stay there and make it better instead of taking the easy option of running away to Europe.)

QUOTE "This journey is a choice. They are paying $10,000 to $30,0000, and impoverishing their families. When they leave, they break the social contract."

Not that the flabby liberal regressive left will take the slightest bit of notice of him. Those persons who wish to encourage more of this behaviour need to think very hard about the real world consequences of their policies.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 31 Mar 2016, 13:52

The same is happening in Central and West Africa where young men, generally, are leaving and taking billions of pounds out of the local economy. I watched an interview on the BBC last night with a migrant who was supposedly fleeing from Boco Haram. All he mentioned in his response was how he wanted a better life in Europe! There was nothing of the trauma of being attacked by terrorists.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 31 Mar 2016, 13:56

kenneal - lagger wrote: But then you're not interested in the sustainability

If I wasn't interested I wouldn't have asked the question. Am I right about the ~3° difference averaged over the heating season? I think that is the key number.

A number of factors are involved in the energy used to keep people warm, the person's latitudinal position being just one of them. Fortunately some of these factors are pretty important, otherwise you would be recommending that we all emigrate to the tropics and Edinburgh should be abandoned.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 31 Mar 2016, 14:48

biffvernon wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote: But then you're not interested in the sustainability
If I wasn't interested I wouldn't have asked the question. Am I right about the ~3° difference averaged over the heating season? I think that is the key number.

A number of factors are involved in the energy used to keep people warm, the person's latitudinal position being just one of them. Fortunately some of these factors are pretty important, otherwise you would be recommending that we all emigrate to the tropics and Edinburgh should be abandoned.

We used a full year's actual weather data for each location so didn't have an average temperature to work on.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 31 Mar 2016, 15:49

kenneal - lagger wrote:
biffvernon wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote: But then you're not interested in the sustainability
If I wasn't interested I wouldn't have asked the question. Am I right about the ~3° difference averaged over the heating season? I think that is the key number.

A number of factors are involved in the energy used to keep people warm, the person's latitudinal position being just one of them. Fortunately some of these factors are pretty important, otherwise you would be recommending that we all emigrate to the tropics and Edinburgh should be abandoned.
We used a full year's actual weather data for each location so didn't have an average temperature to work on.

If I were making insulation decisions in London or Edinburgh I would look at the average heating degree days per season at each location. Once a buildings total exposed surface area and rate of heat loss is known an annual fuel bill can be estimated with a high level of confidence.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 31 Mar 2016, 15:54

The software we used works on that basis but adds in solar gain and wind losses to make it more accurate, VT.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 31 Mar 2016, 16:12

kenneal - lagger wrote:The software we used works on that basis but adds in solar gain and wind losses to make it more accurate, VT.

Interesting! And the results for the same building similarly situated are???
Looking at this site I am surprised that there is not more variation.
http://en.allmetsat.com/climate/united- ... code=03776

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 31 Mar 2016, 17:46

The heat load in Edinburgh was twice that of London and there is less than 400 miles between them. They are also both on the east side of the country so weather patterns are similar.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 31 Mar 2016, 18:34

kenneal - lagger wrote:The heat load in Edinburgh was twice that of London .

So am I understanding this correctly - two identical houses in London and Edinburgh lived in by people with the same comfort demand, the Edinburgh household would spend twice as the Londoners on fuel?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 31 Mar 2016, 18:57

Post by **adam2** » 31 Mar 2016, 19:29

Yes, at least approximately. Surprisingly small temperature difference make a big difference to heating demand.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 31 Mar 2016, 19:44

adam2 wrote:Yes, at least approximately. Surprisingly small temperature difference make a big difference to heating demand.

Was the wind much of a factor?
if you go to that site I linked and go to the bottom of the page and change countries. If you go to New England and then Vermont you can see what I'm up against. Average winter lows of -14C

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 31 Mar 2016, 22:35

kenneal - lagger wrote:Yes!

Thank you.

Maybe that's why, traditionally, Scottish houses have thicker walls than English houses, London houses are not identical to English houses. And Scandinavian houses are something else again. We have the technology so we don't all need to rush to the tropics (or prevent tropical folk heading polewards), we can just build better. And house people more densely, the key metric not being energy demand per house, but demand per person.