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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-strategy
So people are bound to grab hold of anything that promises – however falsely – to put control back in their hands, whether that’s exiting the EU, sacrificing their civil liberties, or even turning on a single religious minority.

Meanwhile, at the same time, we half-know these promises are illusory. Reluctantly, we sense there is no magic button to press that will make this horror stop. That the Brussels attacks came so soon after the murders in Paris adds to the feeling of glum resignation, captured by the cover line on the latest edition of the Economist: “Europe’s new normal”.

This too, I recognise, is another coping strategy, a way to get through what could be a sorrowful few years or even decades ahead. But it may be necessary. And this may be what we glimpsed in the more muted reaction that greeted this week’s agony in Brussels. Perhaps we are beginning to become inured – thickening our skin and hardening our hearts, proofing ourselves against the pain to come.
Interesting argument - I have also noted that unlike the Paris attacks, there has been no real social media impact (no silly changes of Facebook profiles, or meaningless posts about "solidarity" like I saw after the Paris attacks. Indeed, most people seem to have not made any comment whatsoever.

It may be the case that the public are now resigned to the inevitability of low level terror attacks, certainly it is the message of the politicians. Yet, I wonder how long the European public will just accept that the argument of the politicians that there are no alternative policy solutions to the issue of Islamist terror and that we can only carry on and hope for the best.

Is that sustainable? Or will the general public, after a few more attacks, start to think "if the current lot of politicians have no answers, we'll elect politicians who do promise that they can solve this problem. Contrary to what mainstream liberal politicians say, there are policy options out there, the main one being the internment of all potential terrorists on intelligence watch-lists. Right-wing parties that promise that option if they get elected may find that the public will turn to them once they lose patience with the political mainstream.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Lord Beria3 wrote:It may be the case that the public are now resigned to the inevitability of low level terror attacks, certainly it is the message of the politicians. Yet, I wonder how long the European public will just accept that the argument of the politicians that there are no alternative policy solutions to the issue of Islamist terror and that we can only carry on and hope for the best.
Obviously there are lots of choices that can be made in terms of policy. The test to measure them against is whether in the long term they reduce the numbers of these attacks, increase them or make no difference.
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

johnhemming2 wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:It may be the case that the public are now resigned to the inevitability of low level terror attacks, certainly it is the message of the politicians. Yet, I wonder how long the European public will just accept that the argument of the politicians that there are no alternative policy solutions to the issue of Islamist terror and that we can only carry on and hope for the best.
Obviously there are lots of choices that can be made in terms of policy. The test to measure them against is whether in the long term they reduce the numbers of these attacks, increase them or make no difference.
Thats not the media narrative out there. I see no evidence of any discussion about changing policy in the wake of the terror attacks in the UK.

Its true that the French shifted to the right after the Paris attacks, but the rest of Europe hasn't adapted its strategy or considered alternative security options to combat Islamist terror.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Internment did not really achieve that much in Northern Ireland. We did change our nationality law to allow the UK to exclude people who wanted to return from Syria. I think this was in 2014.

It happens to be that some of the approaches of the Coalition government are now being taken by other governments. There was criticism at the time of having orders preventing UK citizens from returning to the UK. However, I don't think such criticism would now be that common.
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

I wonder what effect politically a successful attack on the belgium nuclear power station would have
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

jonny2mad wrote:I wonder what effect politically a successful attack on the belgium nuclear power station would have
The eternal question, of course, is the one I asked previously What policy changes would improve the situation.

The UK came into some flack in saying that UK citizens who went to fight for ISIS cannot expect to return to the UK.
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

johnhemming2 wrote:What policy changes would improve the situation.
It's difficult to know what would improve the situation today, however there is a pretty good understanding of the policy decisions that played a large part in getting here. A start might be to significantly change policy. What to is less important than than the change itself as we know our 'interventionist' policy with respect to the Middle East has had bad outcomes.
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Post by adam2 »

jonny2mad wrote:I wonder what effect politically a successful attack on the belgium nuclear power station would have
Depends on what is meant by "successful". Nuclear power plants are designed to be reasonably proof against theft, sabotage, or stupid mistakes. Even if terrorism was not specifically considered at the design stage, the chance of an individual employee going mad or bad certainly was considered.
I very much doubt that terrorists armed with guns and carry-able amounts of explosives could steal or release significant amounts of highly radioactive materials. Such materials are kept highly secure AND are not portable even after subverting security measures.

I suspect that all the terrorists could do would be to murder some of the staff, and smash or blow up control rooms or ancillary equipment and thereby trip the reactor. After such an event it should still be possible to safely bring the reactor to a state of cold shutdown.

It would certainly be an massive publicity coup for the terrorists, and would be very expensive for the owners of the power station, but should not even result in power cuts since grid networks are/should be run in such a way as to be able to cope with the loss of any one power plant.
Considerable panic could result if the terrorists claimed (falsely) that they HAD released large amounts of radioactive material, or that they were about to blow up the reactor.
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

jonny2mad wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dezHGx_wrKE

Street theatre
:lol:
AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

Looks like some have had enough of the jihadis:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 55236.html
Snail

Post by Snail »

It's like watching a slow train crash. Everybody is on automatic it seems to me: the people blowing bubbles, lighting candles and putting flags up, the far right bullies, and the jihadists. All a bunch of sleepy heads.
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Snail wrote:It's like watching a slow train crash. Everybody is on automatic it seems to me: the people blowing bubbles, lighting candles and putting flags up, the far right bullies, and the jihadists. All a bunch of sleepy heads.
With the number of Muslims that have been born in Europe I don't see how this can end well. They could close the borders and deport all recent immigrant Muslims but what to do about those long time residents with children born in Europe? Make the Muslim religion illegal and tear down all the Mosques and burn every copy of the Koran? Give them the choice of converting to another religion or atheism or leaving Europe? That won't happen so streets running with blood is more likely.
Snail

Post by Snail »

I suppose just limit the amount of almost inevitable future blood by severely limiting future numbers. I've just looked up how many Muslims in EU and its 6% or 44 million approx in 2010 :shock:

We, I include myself, who thought we were 'good people' were fools. Dumb fools who encouraged dumbness in people who believe in a particularly dumb religion.

How's religion taught in school now? Anybody know? I was only taught christianity and expected to treat it seriously. Any philosophy/ psychology. How people think? How advertising works even? Just wondering.
AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

Just watching RT, and they had pretty decent coverage of the protests in Brussels.

It was interesting to hear that the 'March Against Fear' was cancelled due to lack of security, yet when the far-right protesters show up, there's plenty of police on hand. Funny that.

In addition, there was not one shred of coverage of any of this on the BBC, yet we had 24 hrs coverage of the blub-fest that followed the initial attacks. Hmmmm.............
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