tax avoidance and company ethics.

[emordnilap]

I would highly recommend these - http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Varta-4W-LED-Ca ... B004QNW988

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They may indeed be impressive, but the specifications must be exaggerated considerably.
Claimed to be 4 watts and to run on high output for 72 hours from three D cells.
3 D cells in series will be about 3.6 volts on load.
4 watts at 3.6 volts is about 1.1 amps.
D cells cant supply 1.1 amps for more than a few hours, the exact time would vary according to type of cell used but nothing near 72 hours.

We have two of these hung in strategic locations in the house. They've proved their usefulness in power cuts - not only do we know exactly where they are for immediate use, they also have an led which flashes every few seconds as another indicator.

Using Eneloop rechargeable batteries means they can be ready for use for years.

I've never measured their light output in hours it seems very good - plenty long enough to sort out other arrangements but certainly nowhere near 72 hours - and the light output is impressive. Their cowls can be removed for even brighter output and the lamp hung upside-down using the built-in hook on the base.

I did not buy them from DODGY TAX AVOIDERS though after all these years I can't remember exactly where I got them; maybe LED Powerhouse in Dublin.

EDIT this post and those following have been split from the lighting preparedness discussion in the preparations form.

[kenneal - lagger]

I would highly recommend these - http://www.******.co.uk/Varta-4W-LED-Camping-Lantern/dp/B004QNW988

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They may indeed be impressive, but the specifications must be exaggerated considerably.
Claimed to be 4 watts and to run on high output for 72 hours from three D cells.
3 D cells in series will be about 3.6 volts on load.
4 watts at 3.6 volts is about 1.1 amps.
D cells cant supply 1.1 amps for more than a few hours, the exact time would vary according to type of cell used but nothing near 72 hours.

Another reason for not buying stuff from bloody ****** or even quoting it on this forum!!!

Companies like ****** are putting UK companies out of business by undercutting them on because the ******s of this world don't pay tax, they exploit their workers by enforcing unfair work practices and lazy, dull sods in the UK are happy to support these practices. Left wingers who bemoan a Tory government still use and support one of the worst companies for worker exploitation in the whole world.

If we can't have a voluntary ban on quoting ******.co.uk, Adam, can we have a wearedodgy app in place to automatically erase the name when lazy sods try to put it on our forum? This is especially important if they are adding over specifying to their already long list of crimes.

[kenneal - lagger]

I did not buy them from ****** though after all these years I can't remember exactly where I got them; maybe LED Powerhouse in Dublin.

Thank god for that, Em!!!

[emordnilap]

Companies like ****** are putting UK companies out of business by undercutting them on because the ******s of this world don't pay tax, they exploit their workers by enforcing unfair work practices and lazy, dull sods in the UK are happy to support these practices.

Just like the Tescos and Aldis of this world, they get away with it mostly because people don't join dots.

In addition to tax avoidance and worker exploitation, much of the 'discount' you get (such as oranges at 13¢ each, carrots at 39¢ a kilogram in Aldi) really comes from the growers/producers, who are bullied into submission. Tesco does not give discount from its profits.

I have explained this to people who simply don't want to hear. They may as well cover their ears - that's what appears to happen.

Keep your conscience clear and buy from the grower/producer.

[adam2]

If we can't have a voluntary ban on quoting ******.co.uk, Adam, can we have a wearedodgy app in place to automatically erase the name when lazy sods try to put it on our forum? This is especially important if they are adding over specifying to their already long list of crimes.

Done and retrospectively too ! any reference to the popular but tax avoiding on line retailer whose name begins with A and ends with N will now be suitably DODGYfied.

[kenneal - lagger]

Hooray!!! And so quick, Adam!! Thanks very much.

[cubes]

What about the tax dodging small companies we all use too? How many of the owners put through stuff on the company for personal use and get it allowed against tax? Most of them I bet. It's not just large multinationals - they just make an easy target for you.

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think many small companies are dodging taxes to the tune of tens or even hundreds of millions of pounds by cheating a few hundred quid on expenses. It is easier for the taxman to chase small businesses for small amounts so that it looks like they're doing something useful though as the small businesses don't have large firms of expensive, intimidating accountants at their beck and call to harass the taxmen. Also the taxmen aren't expecting well paid jobs in small businesses so they don't mind annoying the small business owners.

Even if there were a million small businesses cheating their expenses claims I doubt that it would come anywhere near what the multinationals are avoiding.

[emordnilap]

Exactly ken. And tell me how many small-to-medium-sized businesses can force producers to sell to them below cost of production? Can force producers' employees to work for a few euro an hour?

[cubes]

Even the largest businesses can't force producers to do anything. The producers have to be willing to lower their prices to that level - it takes 2. It's not the bosses who take most of the hit after all...

[kenneal - lagger]

When an agricultural business sets itself up to supply a supermarket it is not only a huge investment but they are only able to get rid of their product to that one outlet. The supermarkets have such a strangle hold on the market that if they say to that supplier that they want the crop at a certain price or they want to do a BOGOF the supplier can't afford to say no, even if they can't afford to say yes! They have only a few hours to find an alternative market for a massive amount of perishable food and because the individual supermarkets have such a large portion of the market and each supermarket has its own supplier there just isn't a big enough alternative market. If they do say no they risk getting dumped at some time in the future.

I can't see where you are coming from, cubes. You seem to have a big grudge against small businesses.

[Little John]

Even the largest businesses can't force producers to do anything. The producers have to be willing to lower their prices to that level - it takes 2. It's not the bosses who take most of the hit after all...

That is the most ludicrous post I have read this month

I wouldn't even know where to start

[emordnilap]

Even the largest businesses can't force producers to do anything. The producers have to be willing to lower their prices to that level - it takes 2. It's not the bosses who take most of the hit after all...

Apologies if I say you sound almost deliberately naive. Of course they can and do! And the practice is as old as commerce. At least you acknowledge it's the lower-paid, least influential who suffer.

[cubes]

I don;'t think you understand me. The suppliers don't HAVE to supply them. The supermarkets can't force you do anything, they don't have guns after all (yet). Yes, you might go out of business - but that's a risk of going into business in the first place and nobody said it was going to be nice in the world of commerce. Anyway, most of these producers you're talking about are multinationals too...

There's always a choice - it's not the people in charge of the producers who normally pay the price, it's the grunts who get laid off or lower pay.

I can't see where you are coming from, cubes. You seem to have a big grudge against small businesses.

I don't, but the talk here almost holds up small businesses as angels who can do no wrong when we all know this is far far far from the truth. There are many shitty small businesspeople who think of nothing except their own enrichment - many doing stuff so obviously bad even (some) multinationals would blush. We're just talking about tax avoidance/evasion here but h&s, working conditions and pay etc too.

[adam2]

I have certainly worked for some very dubious small employers. Some treated employees badly, others robbed the customers, others cheated on taxes etc. A few managed all three !
However IMO such outfits are overall less of a problem than large multinationals that behave in a similar way.

Firstly they are, by definition very much smaller, and no matter how much misery they may cause to an unfortunate minority, they simply cant do as much harm as a large company.

Secondly they are easier to deal with, by entirely legal means. I have put at least two out of business, single handed and lawfully. And I have probably contributed to the demise of a few others. A large but doubtful multi national will have huge teams of top notch lawyers that can repel all but the most determined legal attacks. Many offshore based firms have at least part of their operations immune to UK law.

Finally, small businesses that behave un-ethically do tend to get noticed and lose customers as a result, even belatedly. Large outfits like Mesco, quickslosh, or A****n don't really care as huge numbers choose them on price, convenience, easy parking, or range of goods.

Also, whilst not condoning tax evasion by small traders it should be remembered that the relatively small amount of money stolen from the taxman is probably spent down the pub, in the bookmakers or on other local goods and services. It therefore still circulates in the local economy, or at least largely in the UK economy. Money stolen from the taxman by dodgy on line retailers tends to disappear forever from the UK.

Would I buy from Axxxxn ? certainly not out of choice, though I might very reluctantly consider it if I could not get the goods elsewhere.
Would I buy a load of logs from a local farmer, for cash, no questions asked? well yes I would and have done so despite a very strong suspicion that the money is spent in the local pub without the taxman getting a share.