Migrant watch (merged topic)

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Mar 2016, 13:17

Looking at the news over the last couple of days, I think we have reached an historically important moment. The flow of migrants - both economic migrants and genuine refugees - through the balkans into central and northern Europe has now been effectively stopped. And I think it is a complete and irreverisble halt, and that this is now - in the last 24 hours - beginning to dawn on the migrants in Greece, and presumably in Turkey. Europe's borders are now closed, and I believe they will stay closed for the rest of our lives.

The political implications are very important, and we are now entering a new stage in this process. It is the endgame for migrants trying to get into Europe.

In northern Europe it means the total defeat and humiliation of the Merkel-Vernon stance on the crisis. Merkel is going to be remembered for having made one of the most catastrophic mistakes any European leader has ever made. As a result of her unrealistic, ideology-driven utter stupidity, hundreds of thousands of people in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and elsewhere have cashed in everything they had, and risked their lives, in order to finance a journey to start a new life in Europe which is not going to happen. Instead, they are going to end up in squalid, hopeless conditions in a semi-permanent camp in Greece, unable to go forwards into Europe and with nothing left to return to where they came from, because they sold it all to get to Greece.

I hope you are proud of yourself, Biff Vernon. This is what your bloody-minded pseudo-moralistic stupidity - or rather the exact same breed of bloody-minded pseudo-moralistic stupidity from Angela Merkel - has produced.

But the European migrant crisis is now going to be brought to an end. I suspect that most would-be economic migrants who were thinking of making the journey to Europe this spring will now stay where they are instead, and the number of people willing to pay £500 to cross the Aegean sea in dangerous conditions will rapidly dwindle. What is the point, when you're just going to end up in appalling conditions in Greece?

This could have been avoided. The best solution to this problem was for Germany and other wealthy European nations to finance the support of the genuine refugees in countries immediately bordering Syria/Iraq, and the systematic return of economic migrants to their homeland.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Mar 2016, 14:33

That post is so utterly spot on, I hope you don't mind that I have précised it and posted on Facebook UE

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Mar 2016, 15:02

Little John wrote:That post is so utterly spot on, I hope you don't mind that I have précised it and posted on Facebook UE

No problem.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Mar 2016, 15:07

Cheers UE. If, on the remote off-chance it goes viral, I'll make sure to cite the original author.....

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 09 Mar 2016, 17:25

Meanwhile, this is what lots of us are actually doing (when we're not posting on PowerSwitch).

We are a community initiative to welcome and support refugees and asylum seekers into our area.

We are part of the Refugees Welcome CitizensUK campaign to welcome Syrian refugees under the UK government’s Resettlement Scheme. We also raise awareness around immigration detention and other refugee/asylum seeker issues, via films and discussion.

Additionally, we are starting a scheme for households to host asylum seekers for short, one-week respite breaks in our rural area.

We aim to make this a joined-up initiative that allows people to have fun and be creative while tapping into their humanitarian values.

https://eastlindsey.cityofsanctuary.org/

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 09 Mar 2016, 18:56

I had a family of four Croatian refugees stay with my family in 1993 (approx). We stayed in touch with them since then as well.

However, numbers remain an issue.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Mar 2016, 18:59

johnhemming2 wrote:
However, numbers remain an issue.

And sustainability. The problem all along with the Vernon/Merkel plan is that rather than solving the problem it actually makes it worse. Much worse. Not just too many migrants but an open-ended stream of migration that would have no end. It was always going to end badly, and it has.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 09 Mar 2016, 20:09

You think this plan will work UE?

Not so sure myself.

Can't see the Greeks managing the burden of deporting tens of thousands of migrants to Turkey.

Can't see either the Turks or NATO successfully stopping ships flowing to Greece.

And I certainly can't see any political support in Europe for the distribution of tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Syrian migrants for every migrant returned to Turkey.

Finally, what happens if huge numbers of migrants force themselves across the border? Will the border guards shoot the migrants?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 09 Mar 2016, 20:17

UndercoverElephant wrote:And sustainability.

Numbers drive sustainability.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Mar 2016, 20:18

Lord Beria3 wrote:You think this plan will work UE?

The plan to close the border? If it is closed then it is closed. The border guards seem to be doing an effective job at making sure of that, at least in most places.

Not so sure myself.

Can't see the Greeks managing the burden of deporting tens of thousands of migrants to Turkey.

If their choice is between the burden of deporting them to Turkey and the burden of not deporting them, which do you think they will choose? And its not just Turkey. Greece is currently negotiating deals with 20 other countries to deport people back to where they came from.

Can't see either the Turks or NATO successfully stopping ships flowing to Greece.

Neither can I, but if would-be migrants believe they'll end up stuck in Greece then why pay smugglers £500 to get across the sea? It is only worth the risk and cost if they think they can get to northern Europe.

And I certainly can't see any political support in Europe for the distribution of tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Syrian migrants for every migrant returned to Turkey.

You mean one for one. I thought the deal was that for every non-Syrian deported from Greece, Europe as a whole agrees to accept one Syrian.

I don't know whether that will actually happen.

Finally, what happens if huge numbers of migrants force themselves across the border? Will the border guards shoot the migrants?

It's possible. In Hungary, I'd say it is probable.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Mar 2016, 20:21

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:And sustainability.
Numbers drive sustainability.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Yes, it is harder to build a sustainable system if there are more people, but what I'm saying is that an open border policy is itself unsustainable, because it just encourages more people to come. It just makes the problem worse, until it becomes completely unmanageable.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 09 Mar 2016, 21:22

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article54340.html

One take on the EU's grubby deal with Turkey.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Mar 2016, 23:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AzBXNDNBtQ

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 09 Mar 2016, 23:51

Biff...your previous post makes no real sense. You are swimming against the tide buddy. Have you seen Little Johns post above mine? The fact he's linking to a post for Nigel Farage should give you some pause for thought....

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 10 Mar 2016, 00:21

I completely disagree with Farage on everything he stands for, except on this one issue. On this he is right. And he is particularly right about Turkey.