Migrant watch (merged topic)

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 01 Mar 2016, 07:43

UndercoverElephant wrote:Not sure what this has to do with migration.

Strikes me this is something to do with mental illness.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 01 Mar 2016, 11:05

Jihad watch did drift a long way off topic into should we/shouldn't we.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 01 Mar 2016, 20:46

Little John wrote: It should be reinstated in full immediately. Furthermore, if this kind of bullshit happens again on this forum, I'd be done because there would be little point in conducting further debate here.

Ah, you couldn't bring yourself to leave!

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 01 Mar 2016, 23:46

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/648 ... -stay-home

'Don't come to Europe' Austria takes out ADVERTS begging Afghan migrants to stay at home

AUSTRIA had unleashed a mass advertising drive in Afghanistan urging migrants thinking of setting off for Europe to stay at home.

The embattled central European country has warned would-be migrants they will not be granted asylum if they make the journey, adding that it will do everything in its power to stop people reaching Germany.

So Austria and Hungary have now both declared that they are going to do everything in their power to stop migrants from entering their territory in an attempt to get to northern Europe.

This is over. It's all about what happens in Greece now, and it's not going to be pretty.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Mar 2016, 00:00

Given that the Austrian and Hungarian governments' actions are a direct and unambiguous rebuttal of the entire German led strategy, what this tells me is that the Austrian and Hungarian governments have possibly been forced into this by fear of what their own population might resort to if they did not do it. In other words, I reckon the public mood in these two counties is already dangerously dark and is being under-reported over here.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 02 Mar 2016, 00:53

Little John wrote:Given that the Austrian and Hungarian governments' actions are a direct and unambiguous rebuttal of the entire German led strategy, what this tells me is that the Austrian and Hungarian governments have possibly been forced into this by fear of what their own population might resort to if they did not do it. In other words, I reckon the public mood in these two counties is already dangerously dark and is being under-reported over here.

In the case of Hungary, it is no secret. The government is right wing (in a nationalist/anti-immigrant sense) because the people elected a right wing government. And it is no surprise in Austria either, given the political history of Austria.

The Germans should never have tried to impose a "Europe-wide" solution that only they were in favour of in the first place. It smacks of Germany trying to dominate Europe, all over again. It threatens to fatally destabilise the EU.

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 02 Mar 2016, 23:05

Interesting to watch Newsnight on the EU/migrant 'crisis'. The EU is looking to spend 700m EUR on this problem. Most of this is going on tents, aid, travel etc.

How is that going to help? I'd expect to use this money for new boats to pack the ones in Greece to go back across the sea, and also to spend funds on propaganda (ie don't come it's no better), and a proportion of funds could be spent on new border fences / guards etc. Does this sound sensible?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 03 Mar 2016, 07:55

AutomaticEarth wrote:spend funds on propaganda (ie don't come it's no better),... Does this sound sensible?

Yes we could put up posters showing photographs of Paris, Homs, London, Alleppo with a caption saying "It's Your Choice".

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 03 Mar 2016, 08:18

Here's a different sort of propaganda that someone just posted on my facebook timeline:

Speak
you who still have lips
speak
speak to the neighbors in the hallway
speak to people in the street
and in the subway

those, who still have ears
will hear

write words on paper
on walls and on banners
carry the words through the city
high above your heads
so everyone can see
distribute leaflets
about freedom resistance peace
solidarity and human dignity

let the words fly like swallows
to faraway lands
guided by the stars
like doves of hope
to our sisters and brothers
in the prisons of the world
those who could not be silent

speak
you who still have lips

words can become suns
words can become rivers
words can open gates
and build bridges
words can overthrow tyrants
if enough of us
arm ourselves with words

speak speak
it is our duty
to those who spoke
while they still
had lips

- Swedish writer Helga Henschen

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-familie ... ni-1547103

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 03 Mar 2016, 09:33

biffvernon wrote:
AutomaticEarth wrote:spend funds on propaganda (ie don't come it's no better),... Does this sound sensible?
Yes we could put up posters showing photographs of Paris, Homs, London, Alleppo with a caption saying "It's Your Choice".

And what would be the point in this? What would be the choice, and what would be the strategy for solving the migrant crisis?

Please explain.

In fact, don't bother. I have belatedly realised that you have now descended to pure trolling. You know perfectly well that your position has been debunked, and now you are just deliberately trying to wind people up. Trying to provoke a reaction.

The tide has conclusively turned against your way of looking at this, Biff. There maybe a few stubborn die-hards like yourself, but the overwhelming majority of public and political opinion is now that an open door policy to migrants who want to come to Europe is counter-productive and effectively suicidal. And this is not going to change, because the migrant crisis is not going to go away to the extent that people might have a chance to forget about it and regress back into the old ways of thinking about it.

Greece has now acknowledged that it is "reception area" instead of a "transit area" and is in the process of negotiating repatriation agreements with up to 20 different countries. Most of the migrants in Greece are going to be sent back to where they came from.

I'll ask you again: please accept that this is over, and stop trying to provoke more arguments.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 03 Mar 2016, 15:13

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35714087

European Council President Donald Tusk has warned illegal economic migrants against coming to Europe, during a new push to solve the EU migrant crisis.

He said illegal economic migrants were risking "lives and money" for nothing

Watch this video, Biff. The world has changed. This is the EC President saying to potential migrants, in totally uncompromising language. "Do not come to Europe" (note there was no "please" on the front of that - it was a warning, not a request). He is saying, without any room for misunderstanding, "This is over. The invasion of Europe by economic migrants is finished. You will not be let in. Stay away."

This is the message that should have been sent out last summer. Better late than never.

Now, for the sake of sanity, common sense and the future of the community that uses this forum, please just accept the reality of what is happening.

This is not "propaganda". It is a stark and honest warning to stop people from risking their lives and wasting their money trying to get to a Europe which is simply not going to accept them. Angela Merkel has been over-ruled.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 03 Mar 2016, 20:21

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 03 Mar 2016, 20:26

The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!

He is of course wrong in his first statement. Not everyone believes that they have the right to have others listen to their opinion.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 03 Mar 2016, 21:02

It's also a curious that Biff would quote this, given that he seems to be getting upset because people are making fun of him because his opinions are demonstrably nonsense.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 03 Mar 2016, 21:07

And by the way, Biff:

"I say to all would-be economic migrants: DO NOT COME TO EUROPE." is not an opinion. It is an instruction - a command. Donald Tusk is not saying "It is my opinion that you shouldn't come to Europe, and you are free to ignore it or make fun of it if you think it is demonstrable nonsense". He is saying "Do not come to Europe, because we're going to send you straight back to where you came from."

This has ceased to be about opinion. This time last year it was all about theories and opinions. Now its about what has already happened, and is happening right now. The statement "an open-door immigration policy will encourage hundreds of thousands of extra migrants to come" is not an opinion. It is an established fact. Your opinion turned out to be demonstrable nonsense.