Migrant watch (merged topic)

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 13 Dec 2015, 17:08

I don't think that anyone here is suggesting that the benefits system is the sole draw. It is just one of many as Bragg says.

To accept that we have people who won't do certain jobs is just as much a failure as actually having those people exist. If people won't do certain jobs we have to address the fact that they can live without a job when there are jobs available. Partly, our education system is failing if there are things that people won't do and the other part is that those jobs often don't pay enough for people to live.

That is partly a failure of the supply of affordable housing, meaning that housing is expensive, and partly a failure of the remuneration system, where it is seen as right for executives to have an increasing salary while the people who actually earn the money for the companies are seen as minions who will and should work for the bare minimum.

We have enough people in the country to do most of the jobs available and the country won't be able to support the increasing population that mass immigration brings. We have net immigration of over 300,000 already without letting in masses of so called refugees. When other countries in Europe can match our total immigration figures they can start to criticise our contribution to the migrant crisis. We have had an immigration crisis for years.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 13 Dec 2015, 17:23

Sweden seems to be coping well:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7045/ ... m-shambles

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 13 Dec 2015, 19:22

Firstly, there's work in the UK for people who don't mind doing the jobs that the native population no longer want to do

Classist BS

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 13 Dec 2015, 19:46

The point is there have not been "savage" cuts to benefits anyway.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 13 Dec 2015, 21:56

fuzzy wrote:Sweden seems to be coping well:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7045/ ... m-shambles

I had not appreciated that Sweden has only about ten million people. It won't take many refugees to overwhelm them. Their best defense may well be their winters. Hard for somebody raised in the tropics to get used to that much snow.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 18 Dec 2015, 16:24

Up to a thousand migrants attempt to storm the Channel Tunnel entrance at Calais

https://www.rt.com/news/326450-calais-r ... ign=chrome

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Dec 2015, 19:10

I see the French pulling back and allowing the migrants to go where they want leading to a shutting down of the tunnel and port at Calais. The migrants will then migrate again to Dieppe and onwards until the UK is completely blockaded by sea from Europe. France doesn't really want to impede their progress, they just want rid as much as we don't want all!

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 18 Dec 2015, 19:17

I think the way this will be have to be dealt with is by an agreement between EU countries to create some kind of land "corridor" where all of the migrants are driven to and then driven down back to the southern shores of Europe. At which point they will be given the stark choice of being given some money to get on a (provided) boat back to where they came from or face their children being removed form them to be adopted by Europeans and that they will then face a life of detention in prisons built for the purpose. Meanwhile, anyone else trying to reach the EU by boat illegally will be met out at sea and sunk with gunboats. It would't take too many sinkings before would be migrants got the message

We are nowhere near the above yet. But it will come to that in the end. However, our politicians will never dare such a thing until the public clamour for it is overwhelming. But, that too, will come in time.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 18 Dec 2015, 20:40

Wise words are found elsewhere on Migration Day.

http://www.undp.org/migration

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 18 Dec 2015, 20:46

Little John wrote:Up to a thousand migrants attempt to storm the Channel Tunnel entrance at Calais

https://www.rt.com/news/326450-calais-r ... ign=chrome

"Storm" is a bit of a strong word...but the message clearly still hasn't got through. These are economic migrants and they are not wanted in the UK. Period.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 18 Dec 2015, 20:56

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Little John wrote:Up to a thousand migrants attempt to storm the Channel Tunnel entrance at Calais

https://www.rt.com/news/326450-calais-r ... ign=chrome
"Storm" is a bit of a strong word...but the message clearly still hasn't got through. These are economic migrants and they are not wanted in the UK. Period.

It doesn't matter what kind of migrants they are, in the final analysis, since they are all part of single continuum with economic migrants at one end and refugees from war at the other.

In the end, they are all refugees in an unfixable world of depleted resources, climate change and population overshoot. All of which are, in combination, leading inexorably to a global ecological catastrophe. The only thing that is left for us to decide, the only thing we CAN decide, is whether or not we want to try and survive what is coming and whether or not we want to try and leave an environment (if only a national one), so far as we are able, that is worth inhabiting for our kids and grandkids and where all life on this small set of islands known as the UK has some kind of a future.

I do. And so I will do and will support whatever it takes to ensure that.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 18 Dec 2015, 21:01

biffvernon wrote:Wise words are found elsewhere on Migration Day.

http://www.undp.org/migration

More disingenous bullshit being posted by Biff Vernon.

Migration is a long-term issue

Yep.

Migration and forced displacement are long-term issues that require long-term solutions. In different contexts, UNDP has long worked on migration and displacement issues, forging partnerships between humanitarian and development actors to find durable solutions at the local and national level.

This includes preventing and mitigating conflicts, improving governance and access to justice, fighting poverty, providing jobs and opportunities, and implementing well managed migration policies...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSZxmZmBfnU

all in line with the new Sustainable Development Goals.

Ah yes, "Sustainable Development". You believe in that, don't you? And so do I, and so does everybody else on this forum.

No we don't, Biff. I don't, Little John doesn't, Ken doesn't, emordnilap doesn't and if you stop lying to yourself then you'll discover that you don't either.

Here is Paul Kingsnorth talking at the "Time to Stop Pretending" forum at Unicivilisation in 2010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gboAHIXqe6Q

It is YOU he is attacking, Biff Vernon. People exactly like you who have forgotten what the environmental movement is supposed to be about.

Development is not sustainable.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 19 Dec 2015, 05:49

I am amazed that the boats landing in Greece are allowed to return to Turkey to pick up yet more migrants. They should be destroyed and the operator arrested and jailed for illegally entering the EU and assisting others to do the same. The key should then be thrown away! That might slow the flow a little and make it more expensive.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 19 Dec 2015, 08:05

What you are advocating, Ken, would be illegal. One of the things that marks out the civilisation that we hold so dear is that we have laws devised by a democratic system and then public officials have to abide by those laws.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 Dec 2015, 08:56

biffvernon wrote:What you are advocating, Ken, would be illegal. One of the things that marks out the civilisation that we hold so dear is that we have laws devised by a democratic system and then public officials have to abide by those laws.

Well it needs to be made legal then. Happy then? No, of course you would not be. In which case, stop with the hiding behind legalities. You would have them enter our borders and settle here irrespective of any other consideration. You would have them do so even if it was illegal.