large scale house building in Venezuela

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 23 Oct 2015, 02:49

Timber of sufficient size will char on the outside in a fire and that charring will insulate the inside of the timber from the heat of the fire. Steel, meanwhile, conducts heat through itself quite quickly and softens so in a building fire a framed timber building will last longer before collapse than a steel framed one. This is why steel framed buildings have extensive fire protection while timber framed ones often have the framework on show, albeit with a coating to stop the surface spread of flame.

Structural steel will start to lose its strength at below the 1000F of a building fire and will start to collapse while timber will keep its structural integrity as an allowance is made in the calculations of an exposed timber structure for the loss of an half inch on all exposed faces for charring.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 23 Oct 2015, 08:38

Ah, but behaviour in a fire is counter-intuitive. A timber beam starts to burn from the outside inwards and with a substantial timber there can be a lot of surface burning without compromising the strength of the beam allowing plenty of time for evacuation and the fire brigade to turn up. Steel beams lose strength progressively at temperatures way below melting point allowing rapid collapse of buildings. The substantial oak beams found in old English buildings sometimes survive major fires for hours.

A significant error made by some 9/11 conspiracy theorists was to ignore this heat weakening of steel effect.

Post by **adam2** » 23 Oct 2015, 10:20

vtsnowedin wrote:
biffvernon wrote:
(And timber performs much better in a fire than steel - you get a long time to evacuate before the structure fails. Steel goes weak as soon as it gets hot.)
Your math and physics is off there mate. Wood begins to burn at 455 Fahrenheit and steel doesn't get red hot until 1400 F and doesn't melt until about 2600F.

Steel structures fail at surprisingly low temperatures in a fire.
Steel loses much of its strength at well below red heat, and unless protected by a fire resisting insulating covering, it heats up throughout very rapidly indeed.

Wood on the other hand starts to burn on the surface, but takes a long time for say 50% of the cross section to burn through.
Hardwood is better, but even pine takes a long while to burn through if in substantial sections.

Steel does have the merit of not burning and therefore not adding fuel to the fire. A steel beam may fail early in a fire, but at least it is not burning and adding heat to the fire.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Oct 2015, 03:56

Taking all of the above into consideration would you build your next house with wood or steel framing? Or if you rent a flat would you move out because the columns were made of steel?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 24 Oct 2015, 08:41

Wood of course. Steel doesn't grow on trees.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 25 Oct 2015, 05:08

I'd build my next house from earth with wood floors and roof. If I had a flat in the UK I wouldn't bother if it was steel framed as the Building Regulations and inspections would ensure that the steel was properly shielded from fire.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 25 Oct 2015, 09:10

I am moving back up to the North East in January (hooray!!!) to finish renovating a house for me and my wife to go and live in. It's right in the part of the world I come from, is a small town/large village. It's close to both mine and my wife's extended families. High unemployment, of course, but that's not an issue for my job. My wife is looking to get a swap to the local hospital for her job so that could take a bit of time. Or, she could go on the nursing bank if necessary. The house is a big four bedroomed house that was originally two houses with a large courtyard at the back. It has a tiny mortgage on it sufficient to not have to worry about even on one part time wage, if push came to shove.

The reason i have mentioned all of this is cos houses are cheap there and so is land. Not to mention, there is no shortage of full size allotments about 50 yards up the road.

Getting out of this bloody city...finally. It's only taken me twenty years to wrench our lass from it.

Post by **clv101** » 25 Oct 2015, 09:43

Little John wrote:The reason i have mentioned all of this is cos houses are cheap there and so is land. Not to mention, there is no shortage of full size allotments about 50 yards up the road.

Getting out of this bloody city...finally. It's only taken me twenty years to wrench our lass from it.

Good move! Hope it all goes well.

Post by **adam2** » 25 Oct 2015, 10:59

vtsnowedin wrote:Taking all of the above into consideration would you build your next house with wood or steel framing? Or if you rent a flat would you move out because the columns were made of steel?

Both have their merits, on balance for building a normal size home I would favour wood because that is the conventional material and there is plenty of data on proper design and construction.
Steel is very rare for domestic construction.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 25 Oct 2015, 11:25

Little John wrote:I am moving back up to the North East in January (hooray!!!) to finish renovating a house for me and my wife to go and live in. It's right in the part of the world I come from, is a small town/large village. It's close to both mine and my wife's extended families. High unemployment, of course, but that's not an issue for my job. My wife is looking to get a swap to the local hospital for her job so that could take a bit of time. Or, she could go on the nursing bank if necessary. The house is a big four bedroomed house that was originally two houses with a large courtyard at the back. It has a tiny mortgage on it sufficient to not have to worry about even on one part time wage, if push came to shove.

The reason i have mentioned all of this is cos houses are cheap there and so is land. Not to mention, there is no shortage of full size allotments about 50 yards up the road.

Getting out of this bloody city...finally. It's only taken me twenty years to wrench our lass from it.

Excellent plan. I'd do it myself only I already did a long time ago. Best of luck with it.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 26 Oct 2015, 03:05

Good luck, LJ.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 28 Oct 2015, 12:03

Little John wrote:I am moving back up to the North East in January (hooray!!!) to finish renovating a house for me and my wife to go and live in. It's right in the part of the world I come from, is a small town/large village. It's close to both mine and my wife's extended families. High unemployment, of course, but that's not an issue for my job. My wife is looking to get a swap to the local hospital for her job so that could take a bit of time. Or, she could go on the nursing bank if necessary. The house is a big four bedroomed house that was originally two houses with a large courtyard at the back. It has a tiny mortgage on it sufficient to not have to worry about even on one part time wage, if push came to shove.

The reason i have mentioned all of this is cos houses are cheap there and so is land. Not to mention, there is no shortage of full size allotments about 50 yards up the road.

Getting out of this bloody city...finally. It's only taken me twenty years to wrench our lass from it.

Sounds great, LJ. Best of luck to you, enjoy your life.