Is it really hard to fathom why many people despise the US?

[Little John]

[
tpals and VTsnowedin, your silence is noted. It is at this point that in order to show that not all Americans are as bad as vile individuals responsible for this evil war crime, you need to condemn it utterly and without qualification, and declare that you are deeply ashamed of what your country has done. Your silence speaks volumes.

Sorry old chap but you do not get to tell me what to think or say, or when to say it.
As the story is indeed changing by the hour I'm waiting for the facts to get sorted out from the spin.
Why anybody in command would deliberately do something that would be such a public relations disaster is beyond me so the evil empire attacks ring false. This is war after all and it has never been a precise by the rules business.

So, presumably, you consider all the fuss about a Russian Aircraft momentarily entering Turkish airspace while on a mission to attack ISIS fighters in a similar spirit of generosity vis a vis the imprecise nature of warfare.....yes? And, you would also consider the propagandised reports of Russian fighters killing "good" rebels equally stupid...yes?

[vtsnowedin]

[
tpals and VTsnowedin, your silence is noted. It is at this point that in order to show that not all Americans are as bad as vile individuals responsible for this evil war crime, you need to condemn it utterly and without qualification, and declare that you are deeply ashamed of what your country has done. Your silence speaks volumes.

Sorry old chap but you do not get to tell me what to think or say, or when to say it.
As the story is indeed changing by the hour I'm waiting for the facts to get sorted out from the spin.
Why anybody in command would deliberately do something that would be such a public relations disaster is beyond me so the evil empire attacks ring false. This is war after all and it has never been a precise by the rules business.

So, presumably, you consider all the fuss about a Russian Aircraft momentarily entering Turkish airspace while on a mission to attack ISIS fighters in a similar spirit of generosity vis a vis the imprecise nature of warfare.....yes? And, you would also consider the propagandised reports of Russian fighters killing "good" rebels equally stupid...yes?

While I'm aware of both those stories I have not had the free time to examine them enough to put forth an opinion. Nobody is waiting on my decision on any of these matters so I chose to wait for more facts to come out rather then take a position and have the foundation of that position wash away within hours.

[UndercoverElephant]

Why anybody in command would deliberately do something that would be such a public relations disaster is beyond me so the evil empire attacks ring false.

Two things to note about this pathetic response.

(1) You imply that the only thing wrong with doing this is that it is a public relations disaster, suggesting that there is nothing wrong with the act itself - that committing war crimes is not a problem.

(2) You say you can't believe your military/government would do this. Well, nobody else here seems to be having any trouble believing they would do this. Why not? Because they've done it before, and their previous record of war crimes and human rights abuses make this part of a pattern. The truth is it is entirely believable.

Your reaction was predictable, and is typical of most Americans. Unwilling to condemn horrific war crimes carried out by your country.

Don't complain when people retaliate by demolishing skyscrapers in New York.

[biffvernon]

Why anybody in command would deliberately do something that would be such a public relations disaster is beyond me

You read the Glenn Greenwald piece that raspberry-blower linked to?

, there is long-standing tension between the Afghan military and this specific MSF hospital, grounded in the fact that the MSF – true to its name – treats all wounded human beings without first determining on which side they fight. That they provide medical treatment to wounded civilians and Taliban fighters alike has made them a target before.

[UndercoverElephant]

Meanwhile, back in the most f****d-up nation on Planet Earth:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

An 11-year-old boy in the US state of Tennessee has been held on suspicion of shooting dead an eight-year-old girl in a row over a puppy.

The boy has been charged with first-degree murder as a juvenile.

According to police, he shot neighbour McKayla Dyer on Saturday evening after she refused to let him see her puppy.

The Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that compiles data on gun violence in the US, says 559 children aged 11 or under have been killed or injured in the United States in gun violence so far this year.

[vtsnowedin]

Why anybody in command would deliberately do something that would be such a public relations disaster is beyond me so the evil empire attacks ring false.

Two things to note about this pathetic response.

(1) You imply that the only thing wrong with doing this is that it is a public relations disaster, suggesting that there is nothing wrong with the act itself - that committing war crimes is not a problem.

Don't be ridiculous! It is a public relations disaster precisely because it is wrong to kill innocent civilians.

(2) You say you can't believe your military/government would do this.

I said they wouldn't do it DELIBERATELY! Big difference.

Well, nobody else here seems to be having any trouble believing they would do this. Why not? Because they've done it before, and their previous record of war crimes and human rights abuses make this part of a pattern. The truth is it is entirely believable.

Your reaction was predictable, and is typical of most Americans. Unwilling to condemn horrific war crimes carried out by your country.

Don't complain when people retaliate by demolishing skyscrapers in New York.

That last line is so far over the top it is beyond comment.
I won't even throw it in your face when your new immigrants to the UK blow up Parliament.[/quote]

[UndercoverElephant]

Why anybody in command would deliberately do something that would be such a public relations disaster is beyond me so the evil empire attacks ring false.

Two things to note about this pathetic response.

(1) You imply that the only thing wrong with doing this is that it is a public relations disaster, suggesting that there is nothing wrong with the act itself - that committing war crimes is not a problem.

Don't be ridiculous! It is a public relations disaster precisely because it is wrong to kill innocent civilians.

Nope, you still don't appear to have quite got it.

The justification currently being given by the US military was that the hospital contained taliban fighters. Under the Geneva Convention, campaigned for by the United States 150 years ago, it is also wrong to kill injured enemy soldiers in neutral-run hospitals. In other words, the problem here is that the justification given by the US, which has nothing to do with civilians, is in itself an admission of a war crime.

(2) You say you can't believe your military/government would do this.

I said they wouldn't do it DELIBERATELY! Big difference.

Not big enough, because everybody I have spoken to about this who isn't American believes they would indeed do it deliberately.

Not least because they have already admitted that it was done deliberately. That is why we are now being told there were taliban fighters at the hospital.

Doh!

[clv101]

The Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that compiles data on gun violence in the US, says 559 children aged 11 or under have been killed or injured in the United States in gun violence so far this year.

That's freeking insane. Any American not currently campaigning for far stricter gun control laws has blood on their hands.

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450057

A Florida candidate for US Senate has come under criticism after it emerged that he once killed a goat and drank its blood.

Augustus Sol Invictus admits he "sacrificed" the animal as part of a pagan ritual, but it was not "sadistic" as some of his critics have alleged.

The Libertarian Party candidate is unlikely to win the seat.

Adrian Wyllie, the state party's chairman, has resigned to draw attention to Invictus' candidacy.

In 2013, Invictus walked from central Florida to the Mojave Desert and spent a week there fasting. When he returned to Florida, he killed the goat to give thanks.

"I did sacrifice a goat. I know that's probably a quibble in the mind of most Americans," he told the Associated Press news agency.

"I sacrificed an animal to the god of the wilderness ... Yes, I drank the goat's blood."

Mr Wyllie said Invictus holds extreme views and brutally dismembered the goat.

"He's a self-proclaimed fascist. He's promoting a second civil war," Mr Wyllie said. "This guy has no place in the Libertarian Party."

Mr Wyllie, who unsuccessfully ran as a Libertarian for the governor of Florida last year, fears the Invictus campaign will stunt the party's recent gains.

Invictus called Mr Wyllie's allegations a "smear campaign". He said although white supremacists support his candidacy, he is not a racist.

The 32-year-old lawyer changed his name to the Latin phrase that means "majestic unconquered sun". He declined to tell a reporter his old name.

[vtsnowedin]

[
Not big enough, because everybody I have spoken to about this who isn't American believes they would indeed do it deliberately.

Not least because they have already admitted that it was done deliberately. That is why we are now being told there were taliban fighters at the hospital.

Doh!

So because everybody believes the world is flat I should believe it too?
Doesn't sound very scientific to me.
I haven't heard yet that the pilots in the planes knew the target was a hospital, neutral or otherwise.
You assume evil intent. I expect that incompetence a couple of levels removed from the airmen is the more plausible truth.
Time will tell.

[vtsnowedin]

The Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that compiles data on gun violence in the US, says 559 children aged 11 or under have been killed or injured in the United States in gun violence so far this year.

That's freeking insane. Any American not currently campaigning for far stricter gun control laws has blood on their hands.

You have the insane part right. A kid that sick in the head would just use a kitchen knife or the puppies leash if the gun was unavailable.
Worlds worst job of parenting there and the schools he has been in for six years must have turned a blind eye several times.

[UndercoverElephant]

That's freeking insane. Any American not currently campaigning for far stricter gun control laws has blood on their hands.

You have the insane part right. A kid that sick in the head would just use a wearedodgy knife or the puppies leash if the gun was unavailable.

Should have given the girl a gun. Then she'd have been able to protect herself!

[UndercoverElephant]

[
Not big enough, because everybody I have spoken to about this who isn't American believes they would indeed do it deliberately.

Not least because they have already admitted that it was done deliberately. That is why we are now being told there were taliban fighters at the hospital.

Doh!

So because everybody believes the world is flat I should believe it too?

Eh?

The US military has itself said that the hospital was targeted intentionally, justifying it by saying "taliban fighters were present".

What possible justification do you have for not believing that it was targeted intentionally. Why on earth would the US military admit that they deliberately bombed a hospital, if they didn't?

ETA: since you obviously haven't read Glenn Greenwald's article, the reason they admitted they targeted it intentionally was because there was overwhelming evidence that their initial claim that it was accidental could not possibly be true.

[clv101]

That's freeking insane. Any American not currently campaigning for far stricter gun control laws has blood on their hands.

You have the insane part right. A kid that sick in the head would just use a knife or the puppies leash if the gun was unavailable.
Worlds worst job of parenting there and the schools he has been in for six years must have turned a blind eye several times.

I don't follow, you can't be saying those hundreds of kids would be killed by other means had guns not been available? Surely you agree that the US needs far tighter controls on guns?

[raspberry-blower]

Whilst VT does not appear to have read the Glenn Greenwald article I posted, someone who does appear to have read and understood it (along with quite a bit of Monty Python) is Dmitry Orlov

Club Orlov: The World's Silliest Empire

So far so good, but let's get even sillier. Immediately after screaming loudly about Russians causing civilian casualties, the Americans blow up a hospital in Afghanistan that was run by Medecins sans Frontières, in spite of being informed of its location both before and during the bombing. “Don't kill civilians... like this!” Could it get any sillier than that? Of course it can: the US can start blatantly, nakedly lying about the event: “There were Taleban fighters hiding in that hospital!”—no, there weren't; “The Afghans told us to bomb that hospital!”—no, they didn't. Bombing that hospital was an actual war crime—so says the UN. Are the Russians now going to listen to criticism from war criminals? Don't be silly!

It's really hard to tell, but anything seems possible now. For example, the US no longer seems to have a foreign policy: the White House says one thing, the State Department another, the Pentagon a third, Samantha Power at the UN pursues a foreign policy of her own using Twitter, and Senator John McCain wants to arm Syrian rebels to shoot down Russian planes. (All five of them? John, don't be silly!) In response to all this confusion, America's political puppets in the European Union are starting to twitch uncontrollably and go off-script, because the nerve center in Washington is no longer sending them clear signals.

US foreign policy is one terminally sick joke that has had shocking consequences for millions of Iraqis , Libyans Syrians and others.

On the home front any attempt at regulating gun ownership is repeatedly slapped down. Result: another mass shooting - rinse and repeat.

The USA is collapsing - it won't end well