What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?
biffvernon wrote:Hmmm, so you care about the money but you like the idea of retaining 'prestige' and the ability to kill a million people at once. I suppose it's a step in the right direction. Maybe.
Now who's putting words into other peoples mouths?
I merely commented that our politicians wouldn't have the same prestige. Why pay out all that money for something that we probably can't use independently and only gives us prestige and a place at the top table of the UN.
As for having the ability to kill a million people at once, it is not the same as actually using that ability. If a bunch of religious nutters have the ability to do that I would like to be able to retaliate. I would like them to know that if they nuked us we would nuke them so that they wouldn't gain anything except possibly a journey to hell, if it exists. That is what deterrence is.
kenneal - lagger wrote:
As for having the ability to kill a million people at once, it is not the same as actually using that ability.
A nuclear deterrent only exists if, in extremis, one is actually prepared to use it. To support a policy of holding nuclear weapons requires one to be willing to killing a million civilians at a time.
kenneal - lagger wrote:
As for having the ability to kill a million people at once, it is not the same as actually using that ability.
A nuclear deterrent only exists if, in extremis, one is actually prepared to use it. To support a policy of holding nuclear weapons requires one to be willing to killing a million civilians at a time.
Obviously. That's the point of a military deterrent of any kind.
Billy Bragg wrote:
Of all the things I've read about Jeremy Corbyn since his victory in the Labour leadership election this is perhaps the most interesting. It appeared in the Daily Mail of all places and, as I have no wish to drive traffic towards their site, I'm pasting the whole thing here. Written by former Labour spin doctor Damian McBride, the article was entitled 'Why Jeremy Corbyn May Be The Best Thing Since Clement Atlee'. Well worth a read:
"To understand Jeremy Corbyn, you need to understand Holloway, the stretch of the A1 from Highgate to Highbury that he has represented in Parliament for three decades.
Forget the name of his constituency – Islington North – and forget every stereotype about poetry recitals and posh restaurants that you associate with that London borough. Holloway is an entirely different beast. From the massive Andover Estate, described as a ‘dump’ by Ann Widdecombe, to the huge Wetherspoon pub serving pints from 8am, this is not the gentrified Islington made famous by Tony and Cherie Blair.
Corbyn’s is the smallest constituency in Britain, but one of the most densely packed. More than 100,000 people live in an area the size of 1,000 football pitches, the best of which is managed by Arsenal Football Club, the new Labour leader’s most high-profile constituent.
Despite their similar populations, you could fit Corbyn’s Islington North inside David Cameron’s rural Witney seat 100 times over. In Witney, 93 per cent of the population define themselves as White British. In Islington North, fewer than half do. Just one in 250 of David Cameron’s constituents is black; for Corbyn, it is one in seven.
Corbyn was a radical socialist before he set foot in Holloway in his early 20s, but nothing he has seen in his years as its MP has softened his views. When opposing the Iraq War, he only had to look at the impact it was having on levels of alienation and extremism among the 10 per cent of his constituents who follow Islam, many at the notorious Finsbury Park Mosque.
He believes in the redistribution of wealth and increased investment in schools, transport, healthcare and housing because these are the needs he sees every day.
Before the General Election, many of my fellow Holloway residents were scathing about Ed Miliband and fearful of him taking office, but ask them how they would vote, and the answer was unanimous: ‘Labour.’ Why? ‘It’s Jeremy. He’s proper Labour.’ Proper Labour: the party established to represent the workers against the vested interests at the top.
Corbyn’s critics scorn the idea that Labour lost the Election because it was not Left-wing enough. But most ordinary voters had no idea what Miliband stood for. They did not see a socialist firebrand; they saw a chocolate soldier, who prevaricated over everything from his television image to his stance on the deficit.
By contrast, Corbyn’s undoubted appeal comes from the fact that he is principled, honest and authentic: he knows what and who he stands for, and says it loud and proud. When Ed Miliband said after his 2010 election: ‘We can’t be imprisoned by the focus groups – politics has to be about leadership or it’s about nothing’, no one believed he meant it. If Corbyn said the same, you can bet they would.
But he faces a rocky ride. Dozens of MPs are already disgracefully ignoring the democratic process and lining up to destabilise their new leader. The only way Corbyn can succeed is by maintaining his genuine voice and hoping that the majority of British people see the country more like the residents of Holloway than the residents of Witney: a country with deep social and economic problems, and massive challenges for public services, which cannot be fixed by more of the same.
The last Labour leader to represent an inner London seat, indeed the last leader of any major party to do so, was in his 60s by the time he became Prime Minister. He was unfashionable, disdainful of the media and he stood on a platform that promoted peace and investment in public services and housing, even with the country facing massive debts.
Clement Attlee went on to be Labour’s greatest Prime Minister. And while few may believe that Jeremy Corbyn can follow in his footsteps as he slips into the leader’s shoes today, one thing is for sure: He comes from the right place."
Not one single unabridged piece of coverage of Corbyn in parliament today despite going down through several pages of Google search and despite several variations of that search made. Nothing, nada, zilch. Plenty of extremely partial coverage showing only those bits designed to give the impression of disunity and disarray. As I said earlier, there is a major hatchet job getting into full swing. Here’s hoping the establishment overplay their hand on this.
Little John wrote:Not one single unabridged piece of coverage of Corbyn in parliament today despite going down through several pages of Google search and despite several variations of that search made. Nothing, nada, zilch. Plenty of extremely partial coverage showing only those bits designed to give the impression of disunity and disarray. As I said earlier, there is a major hatchet job getting into full swing. Here’s hoping the establishment overplay their hand on this.
There's a limit to how much hiding "they" can do of the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition.
As if anyone here has not already noticed, there is a major hatchet job now in full swing against Corbyn in the mainstream media, led as ever by the establishment toady that is the BBC. Some of it is subtle, some of it is crass in the extreme. But, it is clear that this is going to be a concerted propaganda push from the off. That being the case, we all need to be on our guards to rebut the bullshit at every turn both online and in the real world in our workplaces, in our homes etc, wherever and whenever we encounter it.
Little John wrote:Not one single unabridged piece of coverage of Corbyn in parliament today
Try Hansard.
Have to check Hansard, but it may have been the case that Corbyn did not actually speak in Parliament today. I did read that he didn't speak in the Trade Union Bill.
