Labour Party/government Watch

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 14:52

I agree with you about priorities, but if governments start over spending things start going wrong.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Sep 2015, 15:58

johnhemming2 wrote:I agree with you about priorities, but if governments start over spending things start going wrong.

Shouldn't have wasted £133,000,000,000 bailing out a load of parasitical privately-owned banks then, should they?

How many hospitals and schools could that have paid for?

If there was any justice in ths country then every penny should be repaid out of future bank profits.

The bankers responsible should be hanging from lamp-posts, as should those who defend them.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2015, 16:05

johnhemming2 wrote:It is a bipolar question either there is a limit or there isn't. If there is a limit then there is a question as to what the limit is, but you need to start with the original question.

There's a limit to the size of the planet, so there's a limit to how much stuff we can make out of its minerals.

There is no limit to the music we can create.

'Growth' is a false generalisation.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Sep 2015, 16:08

johnhemming2 wrote:Austerity Economics = The viewpoint that there is a practical limit on governmental spending.

The alternative is "Fantasy Economics" - The viewpoint that there is no limit on governmental spending.

So would you like to explain what slashing inheritance tax has got to do with "austerity economics"?

Have you considered withdrawing your tongue from the anus of the establishment, or do you actually like the taste of their sh*t?

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 12 Sep 2015, 17:40

Oh well, not everyone is happy in Corbyn-land....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... orbyn.html

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:11

UndercoverElephant wrote:So would you like to explain what slashing inheritance tax has got to do with "austerity economics"?

Nothing.

I don't think it is a good policy and I challenge you to find anywhere that I have suggested I might even support it.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:13

biffvernon wrote:There is no limit to the music we can create.

That was the JS Mill question and I think he concluded that music is finite

During his mental crisis in 1826, Mill was tormented by the thought of the exhaustibility of musical combinations. The finite number of beautiful sound combinations meant that there could be no long succession of Mozarts and Webers.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/55/Bir ... tuart_Mill

(In the sense of big, but finite).

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:15

UndercoverElephant wrote:Shouldn't have wasted £133,000,000,000 bailing out a load of parasitical privately-owned banks then, should they?

a) It was partial or full nationalisation as I have explained previously
b) The rules have been changed to avoid this in the future
c) This was a capital transaction not a revenue transation
d) The state should make an aggregate profit from it over time.

Please keep up at the back.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:29

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:Shouldn't have wasted £133,000,000,000 bailing out a load of parasitical privately-owned banks then, should they?
a) It was partial or full nationalisation as I have explained previously
b) The rules have been changed to avoid this in the future
c) This was a capital transaction not a revenue transation
d) The state should make an aggregate profit from it over time.

Please keep up at the back.

I'm not at the back. I'm expressing the views of a majority of the population, and people like you are insulting our intelligence by peddling your bullshit and expecting us to believe it.

The reason the UK is so badly in debt was because we bailed out a load of privately owned banks with public money, and the people responsible for this mess have not been punished for it. Meanwhile, slimy apologists like yourself try to make out that the reason the UK is in debt is because there has been too much spending on public services.

We are not fooled.

You lost your seat to Labour, remember? I think it is you, not I, who needs to "keep up". Or do you think those several thousand people who switched to Labour from the Lidbdems agree with you that the state of the UK's finances have nothing to do with the bank bailouts and everything to do with government overspending on public services>?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:37

johnhemming2 wrote:
biffvernon wrote:There is no limit to the music we can create.
That was the JS Mill question and I think he concluded that music is finite

During his mental crisis in 1826, Mill was tormented by the thought of the exhaustibility of musical combinations. The finite number of beautiful sound combinations meant that there could be no long succession of Mozarts and Webers.
https://philosophynow.org/issues/55/Bir ... tuart_Mill

(In the sense of big, but finite).

Well he was wrong!

There is also an infinite number of ways in which the matter that comprises planet Earth can be arranged, given a continuous energy flow from somewhere else in the Universe.

But for practical purposes I'm a supporter of degrowth, the important point being that economic growth is not all the same; we can have truly sustainable growth in certain areas, but not generally.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:38

UndercoverElephant wrote:Meanwhile, slimy apologists like yourself try to make out that the reason the UK is in debt is because there has been too much spending on public services.

These sort of issues need to start with facts rather than emotional responses. The problem particularly is the "deficit" not so much the "debt".

The deficit arises from a number or sources one of which is increasing public spending beyond the increases in the GDP during the early to mid 2000s. The figures can be seen in the summaries of the PESA.

If you are interested in facts you can see the figures here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ables.xlsx

I have also quoted Andrew Turnbull on this:
http://johnhemming.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... g-gun.html

that the state of the UK's finances have nothing to do with the bank bailouts

The UKs finances would be worse without having done the partial or total nationalisation of some of the banks. I do, however, wish to see them reprivatised.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 18:45

biffvernon wrote:But for practical purposes I'm a supporter of degrowth, the important point being that economic growth is not all the same; we can have truly sustainable growth in certain areas, but not generally.

This is where I agree with you.

Post by **clv101** » 12 Sep 2015, 19:53

Tarrel wrote:If Corbin manages to convince the Labour Party to change their stance on nuclear weapons, this could be a game-changer for Trident renewal. That would be Labour, SNP, Greens and PC all against. It would only need a few dissenting (or absent) Tory MPs for any vote on renewal to go "No".

Not sure which way the Lib Dems would go. I think in the election campaign they were in favour of renewal, but they might sense the wind of change in the air and also change their stance.

Unfortunately I think there'd be a lot of Labour 'rebels' voting with the Tories for renewal!

Interesting thing about this result is that Corbyn and his policies are clearly the most popular throughout the Labour Party. Labour MPs who don't think he should have stood and strongly disagree with him should be asking themselves if they really belong in the Labour party.

It strikes me as this result is a clear message to Liz Kendell and others that they are in the wrong party.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 12 Sep 2015, 20:42

Its a shame the Labour party's election defeat wasn't as catastrophic as the lib dems. Tim Farron doesn't have to get rid of all those pretend-ld MPs; they already mostly gone. Jeremy could be stuck with too many pretenders.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 12 Sep 2015, 20:51

Just realised ive called him Jeremy. Always Blair, Brown, Clegg, Cameron. But now I think of him as Jeremy.

he seems so much nicer than the others.