Labour Party/government Watch

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 12 Sep 2015, 12:16

Imagine if this had happened 1 month before the last General Election, an energised party with actual alternative ideas might have got people voting.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2015, 12:49

PS_RalphW wrote:On first round, Corbyn got

49% of the party membership,
4 in 7 of the trade union vote,
and
nearly 9 out of 10 of the £3 voters.

All but a clean sweep on the first round.

Er really? Corbyn got 59.5% on first round. 'Landslide'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34223157

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 12 Sep 2015, 12:58

He's got some serious momentum here, the Tories must be biting their nails. In his speech he talked a lot about ending poverty or raising living standards for the poorest in society, it'll be interesting to see his final manifesto on how that is going to be achieved. I also thought is was great how he didn't wear a tie, and spent most of his speech recognising the contributions of his colleagues.

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:09

mr brightside wrote:He's got some serious momentum here, the Tories must be biting their nails. In his speech he talked a lot about ending poverty or raising living standards for the poorest in society, it'll be interesting to see his final manifesto on how that is going to be achieved. I also thought is was great how he didn't wear a tie, and spent most of his speech recognising the contributions of his colleagues.

Yes, it'll be interesting how the Tories (and some parts of labour) react. I'm wondering what will happen to some of the more right-leaning members of Labour? Defect to the Lib Dems maybe?

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:09

Catweazle wrote:Imagine if this had happened 1 month before the last General Election, an energised party with actual alternative ideas might have got people voting.

That's basically what happened to the SNP in Scotland. After the referendum their membership swelled to 5 times the size it was before. Not only did it win hearts and minds during the election campaign, but all those extra members gave it more financial muscle with which to fight the campaign.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:13

The establishment Mandarins (the "Sir Humphrey" types) must be spluttering over their G&Ts this lunchtime.

Anyone remember the TV drama; "A Very British Coup"?

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:17

AutomaticEarth wrote:Yes, it'll be interesting how the Tories (and some parts of labour) react. I'm wondering what will happen to some of the more right-leaning members of Labour? Defect to the Lib Dems maybe?

Someone resigned within about 10mins of the official result going up. Irrespective of his policies or future manifestos i'm just relieved that there is now a clear opposition to the Tories that might be worth a vote that isn't UKIP. It's early days, but it looks like the filth of the war criminal Blair may be starting to wash away; to paraphrase Gandalf the Grey.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:23

Green Party responds to Labour leadership announcement

12 September 2015

Natalie Bennett, Green Party leader, said:

"The selection of Jeremy Corbyn, combined with the remarkable Green surge of the past year, and the SNP's success at the General Election, shows how many people support an alternative to austerity economics, to the head-in-the-sand approach to our environmental crisis and to tired, business-as-usual politics.

"The Green Party shares Corbyn’s opposition to austerity, Trident nuclear weapons, and the sell-off of public assets and we will be delighted to work with his Labour Party and others who share our views on these and other issues.

"The Green Party is committed to standing up for migrants and refugees and calls on the new Labour leader to challenge the government’s feeble and inadequate response to the global refugee crisis.

"In addition, we hope to engage Corbyn and the Labour Party in discussions about the urgent need for electoral reform. As the May 2015 General Election proved, our outdated and unrepresentative system fails both democracy and the electorate.

"We hope Corbyn will encourage his supporters to join with us and other campaigners working on these issues, and, in particular, on pushing the issue of climate change to the top of the political agenda ahead of the upcoming Paris talks.

"The Green Party’s doors continue to remain open to those who want to create a new kind of progressive politics, working as we have been for decades, for a society in which no one fears being unable to put food on the table or keep a roof over their head, while we collectively live within the environmental limits of our planet."

- See more at: https://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2015 ... BmwAo.dpuf

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:28

If Corbin manages to convince the Labour Party to change their stance on nuclear weapons, this could be a game-changer for Trident renewal. That would be Labour, SNP, Greens and PC all against. It would only need a few dissenting (or absent) Tory MPs for any vote on renewal to go "No".

Not sure which way the Lib Dems would go. I think in the election campaign they were in favour of renewal, but they might sense the wind of change in the air and also change their stance.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:52

AutomaticEarth wrote:
mr brightside wrote:He's got some serious momentum here, the Tories must be biting their nails. In his speech he talked a lot about ending poverty or raising living standards for the poorest in society, it'll be interesting to see his final manifesto on how that is going to be achieved. I also thought is was great how he didn't wear a tie, and spent most of his speech recognising the contributions of his colleagues.
Yes, it'll be interesting how the Tories (and some parts of labour) react. I'm wondering what will happen to some of the more right-leaning members of Labour? Defect to the Lib Dems maybe?

Seems like a strange thing to do with Labour in the ascendancy and the LibDems going nowhere fast. Labour defectors to the LDs are likely to get kicked out by the electorate in 2020.

I suspect they will just sit on the backbenches, keep quiet and wait and see what happens. If Corbyn does well in the country (polls, by-elections) then there they will probably stay, especially if they think they are going to hold their own seats in 2020. And if he starts to falter, they'll emerge like a pack of wolves to finish him off.

Although I do wonder whether this process has shifted the entire party so far back to where it came from that even if Corbyn was brought down, another candidate from the left might replace him.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Sep 2015, 13:58

mr brightside wrote:
AutomaticEarth wrote:Yes, it'll be interesting how the Tories (and some parts of labour) react. I'm wondering what will happen to some of the more right-leaning members of Labour? Defect to the Lib Dems maybe?
Someone resigned within about 10mins of the official result going up. Irrespective of his policies or future manifestos i'm just relieved that there is now a clear opposition to the Tories that might be worth a vote that isn't UKIP. It's early days, but it looks like the filth of the war criminal Blair may be starting to wash away; to paraphrase Gandalf the Grey.

If Blair has got any sense, he will now slink out of the public eye and hope that Chilcot can spend another ten years avoiding publishing his report. If he starts sniping at Corbyn from the sidelines then he's going to actually manage to overtake Murdoch as the most hated man in the country who isn't already behind bars.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 14:27

Austerity Economics = The viewpoint that there is a practical limit on governmental spending.

The alternative is "Fantasy Economics" - The viewpoint that there is no limit on governmental spending.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2015, 14:29

Actually there is an alternative. Plenty at the New Economics Foundation

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Sep 2015, 14:30

It is a bipolar question either there is a limit or there isn't. If there is a limit then there is a question as to what the limit is, but you need to start with the original question.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 12 Sep 2015, 14:42

The limit on government spending should be government income. I can't remember the last UK government that managed that, of any hue.

However, government income is heavily affected by who , what and to waht extent the government level of tax is, and what you spend your income on varies. Trident and illegal foreign wars are both expensive.