Labour Party/government Watch

[Little John]

Shows how bonkers many people's stance on the refugee crisis is, doesn't it! Those advocating letting migrants in, they are not refugees once they leave Turkey, are also saying that we should do something about the war in Syria. Corbyn, who Biff and many of his ilk support, is now saying that we shouldn't bomb ISIS so that is going to make the migrant situation worse as most of them are fleeing ISIS and the fighting that it is causing and the bombing is designed to reduce

If we allow ISIS to win there will be a vast number of non Sunnis fleeing the new caliphate together with a large number of Sunnis who are not as religious as the Caliph would like. We would then have the problem of the Caliphate invading Europe, through Turkey, and causing vast numbers of new refugees.

My support for Corbyn is rapidly disappearing.

I was hoping for one battle at a time. Left first, then a realistic acknowledgement of migration issues. but, events are rapidly taking over. Depending on how Corbyn publicly and formally reacts to all of this following the labour leadership election, my support may also evaporate.

[biffvernon]

Corbyn, who Biff and many of his ilk support, is now saying that we shouldn't bomb ISIS so that is going to make the migrant situation worse as most of them are fleeing ISIS and the fighting that it is causing and the bombing is designed to reduce.

I don't think we should bomb anybody. It's dangerous.

[kenneal - lagger]

The refugees I dealt with today had family members killed by Assad's forces.

There are families fleeing from all the sides in this Islamic civil war.

According to a piece in the Telegraph, towards the end, the Russians are now hinting that there might have to be power sharing in Syria which would be the end of Assad. There is hope yet!

[clv101]

Corbyn, who Biff and many of his ilk support, is now saying that we shouldn't bomb ISIS so that is going to make the migrant situation worse as most of them are fleeing ISIS and the fighting that it is causing and the bombing is designed to reduce.

Hang on, tell me you don't actually think bombing ISIS will help matters? You haven't been reading Murdoch have you?

From the Sun:

[kenneal - lagger]

Bombing them will be better than letting them take over the whole Middle East and no, I haven't been reading the Murdoch press. If they are allowed to take over the Middle East we would very soon find them knocking on the doors of Europe with a bloody great gun or three. I would be rather keen on someone bombing them then.

I don't think negotiating with them would do much good either unless we were negotiating for them to take over the whole of Europe! Then we would have to agree to all convert to Sunni Islam before they would agree not to kill all and sundry!

I think bombing them is a bit better!!

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think we should bomb anybody. It's dangerous.

Hopefully it wouldn't be dangerous! It would be bloody lethal!!

Have you converted to Islam already then? I hope it's the Sunni variety!

[Little John]

For all of our sins in the middle East, which are many and manifest. The fact remains that Islam, in any form, is fundamentally incompatible with Western secularism, even at the best of times and under the best of conditions. As it is, fundamentalist Islam is a scourge on the world. It is non-negotiable, it is implacable and it absolutely will not stop until its raison-d’etre is achieved. Namely, the establishment of a global Islamic caliphate. Again, the West has played a significant part in the stirring of the monster. However, this was on the cards one way or another. We now have a significant Muslim population in Europe whose Islamic allegiance will always trump any local national allegiance and, as this conflict escalates further, will become ever more radicalised. Even many of the non-radicalised are willing to put up with radical elements in their own communities since, although they no doubt consider them to be bastards as we do, they fundamentally consider them to be their bastards and this always trumps their loyalty to any host nation.

Unless the Muslim diaspora on this country and others are able to put their own house in order and get a grip on their radical elements, this cannot end well.

[biffvernon]

Bombing them will be better than letting them take over the whole Middle East

Ken, you and I are old enough to remember the arguments used early on in the Vietnam war. I recall one particularly graphic newspaper image of a map of that corner of the world with a line of dominoes arranged across it leading from China, through Indo-China, Indonesia and on to Australia.

The idea being promoted was that if the Vietcong were not killed now Australia would become communist. A lot of people believed it.

[Blue Peter]

The fact remains that Islam, in any form, is fundamentally incompatible with Western secularism, even at the best of times and under the best of conditions.

Similarly, Christianity is incompatible with Western secularism, but millions of Christians seem to manage.

And, I suspect that the vast, vast majority of the 2.7+ million muslims in this country manage as well,


Peter.

[Little John]

The fact remains that Islam, in any form, is fundamentally incompatible with Western secularism, even at the best of times and under the best of conditions.

Similarly, Christianity is incompatible with Western secularism, but millions of Christians seem to manage.

And, I suspect that the vast, vast majority of the 2.7+ million muslims in this country manage as well,


Peter.

It is absolutely true that fundamentalist Christianity is incompatible with Western Secularism, yes, I agree. Which is why we had the Enlightenment and why we separated church and state and, in doing so, tamed the beast...more or less. Islam has not undergone a similar historical process, which is why it is still so incompatible, in any form, with Western secularism. This unpalatable truth does not sit easily at all with Western secularist thinking. But that does not stop it form being true. Paradoxically, then, the very thing we hold most dear about our secularism, the capacity to be accepting and tolerant of all views, is also our greatest weakness.

[kenneal - lagger]

ISIS kills or literally enslaves anyone who does not convert to Islam and blows up anything which it considers blasphemous so they are somewhat different to fundamentalist Christian sects which generally go as far as not associating with non believers. ISIS are taking us back to the 6th Century so thinking that they can be lived with or negotiated with is being very stupid or, if I am being charitable, naive!

[PS_RalphW]

Back on topic,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34198261

A BBC piece trying to imply that even Corbyn's supporters are terrified of the prospect of a Corbyn win, without ever naming names or saying anything specific.

It even implies that Corbyn does not want the job.

Sort of reminds me of the maxim, "Nobody who wants power should ever be allowed anywhere near it".

[PS_RalphW]

On first round, Corbyn got

49% of the party membership,
4 in 7 of the trade union vote,
and
nearly 9 out of 10 of the £3 voters.

All but a clean sweep on the first round.

[biffvernon]

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.

[Tarrel]

A fault-line in British politics just shifted. It's going to be interesting.