National Guard, police tighten grip on Ferguson, Missouri

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 21 Aug 2014, 21:08

Deaths from police shootings (latest available year)
US 409
Germany 8
Britain 0
Japan 0

Source: http://www.economist.com/news/united-st ... t-overkill

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 22 Aug 2014, 21:30

biffvernon wrote:Watch this: http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cell_ph ... l_killing/

Remember Kajieme Powell, the man who we were told threatened the policeman with a knife and was therefore killed? They lied. I'm angry with myself for believing their lies. The USA is dysfunctional.

More from the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... n-st-louis

Yep, just saw this on facebook. Perfect example of unjustified police brutality. There was absolutely no reason to shoot that man six times. Once in each leg would have been more than enough. As far as I am concerned, that is murder, plain and simple. Not surprised the black community is rioting, and I see no way of resolving this that doesn't involve the police officer involved going to prison and serving a sentence for murder in cold blood.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 23 Aug 2014, 10:28

The man brazenly shoplifted twice, I assume to make sure he was seen, then waited around outside for the cops to show up. He made as point of putting the two cans on show and pacing around them attracting attention, then when the cops arrived he jumped up on the wall for maximum visibility, waited for guns to be drawn and approached the cops.

To me, he looked like a disturbed man who wanted to be a martyr.

Of course the two cops won't have known any of the preceding events, they just saw a guy who was reportedly armed advancing on them. There are plenty of dead cops who let a lunatic get too close, so their training says they should give warnings and shoot.

There is no "shoot to kill", killing is irrelevant, they shoot to stop someone, they shoot at the area most likely to do so and easiest to hit in a very scary situation. They shoot at the "centre of mass".

There is no option of "shooting in the foot" when a possibly armed, drugged and dangerous person is advancing on you.

In the UK we might have seen the cops give him a whack with a truncheon or taser him, and that would have been a far better result, but in the US guns are readily available and the cops simply won't take that chance. They have families too.

I don't want to sound like an apologist for what happened, but you have to look at it from both sides and remember we didn't hear what was said - the shot man could have been telling the cops he was armed or was going to kill them.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 23 Aug 2014, 11:00

Yes what you are looking at is called suicide by cop. It happens quite often. For all we know the cops in question may have dealt with this resident repeatedly in the past so knew his attitude and mental state.
Still I think two cops could have separated and outflanked him then waited for reinforcements to take him into custody alive.

Post by **adam2** » 12 Mar 2015, 08:12

Trouble ongoing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-31846425

Post by **adam2** » 10 Aug 2015, 10:54

More here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33844201

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 10 Aug 2015, 16:38

vtsnowedin wrote:Yes what you are looking at is called suicide by cop. It happens quite often. For all we know the cops in question may have dealt with this resident repeatedly in the past so knew his attitude and mental state.
Still I think two cops could have separated and outflanked him then waited for reinforcements to take him into custody alive.

Perhaps more police in the US should be armed with tasers as well as their guns. If someone is shooting at you, shoot back. In other situations use the taser.

The cost of equipping police with tasers must be less than the cost of the violence that results in the case of the killing/suicide by cop.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 10 Aug 2015, 16:40

kenneal - lagger wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Yes what you are looking at is called suicide by cop. It happens quite often. For all we know the cops in question may have dealt with this resident repeatedly in the past so knew his attitude and mental state.
Still I think two cops could have separated and outflanked him then waited for reinforcements to take him into custody alive.
Perhaps more police in the US should be armed with tasers as well as their guns. If someone is shooting at you, shoot back. In other situations use the taser.

The cost of equipping police with tasers must be less than the cost of the violence that results in the case of the killing/suicide by cop.

.... or the subsequent legal costs involved.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 10 Aug 2015, 17:26

There must be something deeply flawed in a society that comes up with a phrase like 'suicide by cop'.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 11 Aug 2015, 01:52

biffvernon wrote:There must be something deeply flawed in a society that comes up with a phrase like 'suicide by cop'.

The root causes of what drove these people to end their lives prematurely this way should be determined and eliminated if possible but describing it as "suicide by cop" is just an accurate description of what happens.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 11 Aug 2015, 02:01

In local news there was a local woman that had her nine year old child taken away from her by state officials. (No details of why have yet been made public). She responded by taking a deer rifle and killing three of her relatives,(presumably those that reported her to the state) and then went down to the local government office and shot dead the social worker that had processed her child's case. Passers by pined her down and disarmed her and held her until the cops came on scene.
Imagine yourself as one of those passers by?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 11 Aug 2015, 06:41

vtsnowedin wrote:
biffvernon wrote:There must be something deeply flawed in a society that comes up with a phrase like 'suicide by cop'.
The root causes of what drove these people to end their lives prematurely this way should be determined and eliminated if possible but describing it as "suicide by cop" is just an accurate description of what happens.

The phrase frames the issue in a way that can only arise in a deeply flawed society. An accurate description of what happens would "homicide by cop" and it seems that in all too many cases "murder by cop" is appropriate.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 11 Aug 2015, 07:27

I don't think you are right there, Biff. If a person who doesn't want to live but hasn't got the guts to shoot themselves points a gun at, or even shoots in the direction of, an armed policeman the policeman can't know whether or not the man is seriously trying to kill him. He has every right to defend himself and the only way to do that is to shoot at the greatest mass, i.e. the body, as Catweezle has said elsewhere. That is likely to kill the gunman.

Why is that murder? If it happened here the police would shoot him. They don't use tasers on gunmen because they have to be within 10 of 20 feet of the target and at that range a gunman could hardly miss the policeman before he was tasered.

If you start pointing a gun at another person I think there should be a presumption that you are highly likely to be shot at in return and I don't think that denotes "a deeply flawed society."

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Aug 2015, 07:45

So....

Some people on here are seriously trying to suggest that over 400 people in the US, this year. elected to "commit suicide by cop"?

F--k me......

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 11 Aug 2015, 07:52

Exactly so LJ. It might have happened once or twice, though I doubt even that. 400 times? Bonkers.