Migrant watch (merged topic)

[UndercoverElephant]

You cannot blame them do for doing this, but we should not allow them to simply claim to be a child and suddenly they get massive financial support (around 30K pa - not paid directly, however).

Foreign policy (eg the war in Iraq) is part of this as well. However, that is now in the past and we need to deal with the consequences.

We can't let them keep coming at all, John. Not even the ones who are fleeing apalling situations and have nothing left to lose.

This is not 1000 migrants. It's the beginning of a tidal wave of displaced human beings that will eventually number in their hundreds of millions. We are entering an era of mass die-off and mass-migration. Sooner or later it is absolutely inevitable that we're just going to have to say "NO MORE. YOU CAN'T COME HERE." and we're going to have to mean it and make it stick. Then, and only then, can we have any hope of creating a sustainable UK or a sustainable Europe.

And if people in the mainstream of politics do not understand this and act on it then, as is already happening in France, the common people will deliver power to those on the far right who will act on it.

We've also already seen this dynamic in action in the UK. We saw it during "Duffygate", when Gordon Brown called a life-long Labour voter "some bigoted woman" because she said she was worried about immigration. This mistake effectively ended his political career.

And we saw it in May, when Ed Miliband and the New Labour front bench refused to countenance an EU referendum and ended up losing sufficient numbers of Labour voters to UKIP to ensure that Cameron ended up in Downing Street instead of Miliband. That one mistake put the tories in power, IMO.

[johnhemming2]

I did take the view that my primary responsibility as member for Birmingham, Yardley was to protect the interests of my constituents. That does not mean refusing to help anyone else, but we cannot just dump refugees on the welfare state. That will undermine the welfare state.

[cubes]

Don't know how true this is but I suspect if it is then it's going to get more widespread imo.

Migrants 'attacked' at sea between Greece and Turkey
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/worl ... cle/439878

[Little John]

It's going to get a lot worse.

[UndercoverElephant]

I wouldn't be surprised if what we see is the Greek and Italian authorities turning a blind eye, or giving a carte blanche, to criminal gangs who want to attack or rob migrants in the Med, if they think it will help to deter people from coming.

Sort of a 21st century version of privateering, except the victims are migrants rather than traders. If somebody else wants to do your dirty work, then why stop them...

[Little John]

And the northern EU Authorities will end up turning a blind eye the the Greek/Italian blind eye.

All in order to avoid, at least for a bit longer, having to come clean with their electorates about the calamity heading our way and what it really means.

[jonny2mad]

No, it's just that picking gooseberries (and quite a lot of other things) is more important to me than posting on PowerSwitch. Anyway, it's your turn to answer my first point in my 12.56 post.

When you've done that, remind me which important point of yours I missed.

Meanwhile, here's another Guardian journalist explaining what ought to be done. [Not to be read by those of a cold-hearted nature.]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ent-europe

This is rubbish migrations can be stopped there is another option that would be fortress europe, and a getting rid of the people who have already invaded europe .

Most of these migrants are young fit men your seeing a invasion they are economic migrants, and if you rehome 1 million then it will be 20 million then a 100 million then the people that are here will end up like the palestinians .


RIGHT think about this its the 1930s were the jews people who you need to take in as refugees answer me now




if you look at palestine you have people who used to have a country and now are homeless that orignally happened because of migration of people who were largely pitiful refugees the jews .

So biff is a arab in palestine in 1930 does biff say yes take in the jews give them a home because there were arabs who did that, and now their children and grandchildren curse them for fools .

I'll drop this in again and see if it can stimulate a more solutionary approach.

"If we continue the way we're going, then we're going to reach a crisis point, where it's impossible..to feed everyone and at that point then all bets will be off, because you'll have. millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people who are migrating...to survive. Now...if you're in the first world and you think..well that's ok, it's not me...it's them, well......this isn't going to save you, you can't shoot them down, there are to many, there are 7 billion people on the earth and we're adding another billion people every twelve years, it's not going to be possible to suppress humanity when they can't survive, they won't go gently into that good night"

John D. Liu~


Stewing around in fearful reaction isn't going to help.

yes you can shoot them or bomb them all, and that and machetes and axes is whats going to bring down world population .

your seeing the begining of really tight conflict for resources my advice create a tribe have lots of kids to replace the people who will get killed in your tribe and get ready to fight it out .

things are going to get local not in a transition town way more in a "the Road " way

[biffvernon]

Church attacks David Cameron’s lack of compassion over asylum crisis

Bishop of Dover pleads for PM to ‘rediscover what it is to be human’ as No 10 reveals a joint plan with France to boost security around Eurotunnel

The Church of England has made a dramatic intervention in the migrant crisis, delivering a stern rebuke to David Cameron for his “unhelpful” rhetoric.

Speaking with the backing of the church, the bishop of Dover accused senior political figures, including the prime minister, of forgetting their humanity and attacked elements of the media for propagating a “toxicity” designed to spread antipathy towards migrants.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/a ... lum-crisis

[peaceful_life]

This is rubbish migrations can be stopped there is another option that would be fortress europe, and a getting rid of the people who have already invaded europe .

Most of these migrants are young fit men your seeing a invasion they are economic migrants, and if you rehome 1 million then it will be 20 million then a 100 million then the people that are here will end up like the palestinians .


RIGHT think about this its the 1930s were the jews people who you need to take in as refugees answer me now




if you look at palestine you have people who used to have a country and now are homeless that orignally happened because of migration of people who were largely pitiful refugees the jews .

So biff is a arab in palestine in 1930 does biff say yes take in the jews give them a home because there were arabs who did that, and now their children and grandchildren curse them for fools .

I'll drop this in again and see if it can stimulate a more solutionary approach.

"If we continue the way we're going, then we're going to reach a crisis point, where it's impossible..to feed everyone and at that point then all bets will be off, because you'll have. millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people who are migrating...to survive. Now...if you're in the first world and you think..well that's ok, it's not me...it's them, well......this isn't going to save you, you can't shoot them down, there are to many, there are 7 billion people on the earth and we're adding another billion people every twelve years, it's not going to be possible to suppress humanity when they can't survive, they won't go gently into that good night"

John D. Liu~


Stewing around in fearful reaction isn't going to help.

yes you can shoot them or bomb them all, and that and machetes and axes is whats going to bring down world population .

your seeing the begining of really tight conflict for resources my advice create a tribe have lots of kids to replace the people who will get killed in your tribe and get ready to fight it out .

things are going to get local not in a transition town way more in a "the Road " way

His, John D Lius', point was, how to avoid such scenarios, not stumble headlong into them.

[vtsnowedin]

yes you can shoot them or bomb them all, and that and machetes and axes is whats going to bring down world population .

If your in the UK I have to ask. Shoot them with what guns?

[Catweazle]

yes you can shoot them or bomb them all, and that and machetes and axes is whats going to bring down world population .

If your in the UK I have to ask. Shoot them with what guns?

Our army has plenty of them.

[vtsnowedin]

On further thought you can't be shooting people as they pop out of the chunnel. You must find a more civilized and effective way to reduce the population where they are. Before they have a chance to migrate. Perhaps feed and arm both sides of civil wars while blockading any food or medicine shipments pretending it is for the good of the women and children.
A few misdirected "intelligence feeds" to confuse the leaders and stir things up etc..
After a nice long civil war you could send in some mercenaries to shoot the winners then arrest the mercenaries and shoot them for their war crimes.
IF you are clever about it they will ship you their last drop of oil in exchange for one last weapons shipment that will win the war for them.

[cubes]

Best to give them a reason to stay in north africa.

This would take billions (and is probably a crap idea) but anyway. Lease land from Libya, try and create a new Singapore/Hong Kong in North Africa. Yes it would cost a lot of money but I suspect there are countries prepare to pay atm, this one being one of them. Finally a use for that aid budget that isn't bribing people to buy our stuff.

[UndercoverElephant]

Best to give them a reason to stay in north africa.

This would take billions (and is probably a crap idea) but anyway. Lease land from Libya, try and create a new Singapore/Hong Kong in North Africa. Yes it would cost a lot of money but I suspect there are countries prepare to pay atm, this one being one of them. Finally a use for that aid budget that isn't bribing people to buy our stuff.

Nice bit of lateral thinking, but it can't work. It's not the money that is the problem, but the lack of a geologically-suitable location. Specifically, there' no decent sized river and insufficient rainfall, so not enough fresh water. Something like this has been done in various parts of the middle east, but only in oil-rich states which have such an insane amount of free energy that they can use desalination plants to produce the water.

[vtsnowedin]

Best to give them a reason to stay in north africa.

This would take billions (and is probably a crap idea) but anyway. Lease land from Libya, try and create a new Singapore/Hong Kong in North Africa. Yes it would cost a lot of money but I suspect there are countries prepare to pay atm, this one being one of them. Finally a use for that aid budget that isn't bribing people to buy our stuff.

Nice bit of lateral thinking, but it can't work. It's not the money that is the problem, but the lack of a geologically-suitable location. Specifically, there' no decent sized river and insufficient rainfall, so not enough fresh water. Something like this has been done in various parts of the middle east, but only in oil-rich states which have such an insane amount of free energy that they can use desalination plants to produce the water.

Considering the local weather in Libya perhaps solar powered PV panels desalinating sea water using reverse osmosis. You could run a large city easy enough, the problem becomes on making enough water to irrigate enough land to feed the population.