A short time ago the dog of a walker passing by the field next to our house entered the field and broke down our chicken house door.
At least 3 chickens are dead.
It's dark out there but I have flash photographed the damage and the bodies.
It now seems that this dog is known for chasing sheep on two different farms in the area ... although I doubt any police report has been filed.
Clearly this is not a one-off ... the owner MUST know of the problem.
Being a smallish village we can track down the owner.
So what now?
A report to the police?
A private law case?
An ASBO?
A putting-down order?
Compenastion for physical loss & damage?
Compensation for my wife ... she is VERY upset.
Tips please guys & gals .. ASAP so that I can do the "right thing" in the morning with regards to the police etc.
Many thanks.
URGENT: Walker's dog kills our chickens ...
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Re: URGENT: Walker's dog kills our chickens ...
A quiet word, if that fails any of the above OR if everyone in the village agrees send the bugger to coventry, ignore him, should the dog ever cross onto your property shoot it.Vortex wrote: A report to the police?
A private law case?
An ASBO?
A putting-down order?
Compenastion for physical loss & damage?
Compensation for my wife ... she is VERY upset.
I was coming across all reasonable there but I think my last point balanced things up nicely.
Sorry to hear that, it must be very distressing for you and a tricky dilemma. I hope you will get some replies to this one to help you reach a decision.
Take care to identify the correct dog and dog owner so as not to inadvertantly accuse the wrong person/animal. Once you're sure, I'd talk to the owner. If the owner was walking with the dog, they must have known that the animal ran off for a while, so I'd see if they will take responsibility for what the dog has done.
If you don't get a very positive response from this, try contacting others who you think have been bothered by the same animal and see what they advise.
If you contact the police, can they really do anything without absolute proof? and if they can't do anything is it worth aggrevating the owner (what type of person is it?).
Just edited to add this link: http://www.naturenet.net/law/dogs.html
Take care to identify the correct dog and dog owner so as not to inadvertantly accuse the wrong person/animal. Once you're sure, I'd talk to the owner. If the owner was walking with the dog, they must have known that the animal ran off for a while, so I'd see if they will take responsibility for what the dog has done.
If you don't get a very positive response from this, try contacting others who you think have been bothered by the same animal and see what they advise.
If you contact the police, can they really do anything without absolute proof? and if they can't do anything is it worth aggrevating the owner (what type of person is it?).
Just edited to add this link: http://www.naturenet.net/law/dogs.html
Any responsible owner should act!
We were recently alerted to the fact that our two small terriers were seen roaming the country side. It became apparent that our containment methods were not working. (Kids kept accidently leaving doors, gates etc open.... & it only took a second for them to scarper!... and I have 4 children!)
Anyway we solved it by buying an electric fence... the ones that go underground and the older dog now wears a collar. This keeps him within an acre around the house. The other dog doesn't stray alone.
Luckily our dogs had done no damage, but I was grateful for the alert from a local farmer.
Good luck with this. Not a simple task, keeping good relations AND getting the problem sorted.
Sal
...... ummmm must get hens again.... I used to keep Welsummers - beautiful chooks....
We were recently alerted to the fact that our two small terriers were seen roaming the country side. It became apparent that our containment methods were not working. (Kids kept accidently leaving doors, gates etc open.... & it only took a second for them to scarper!... and I have 4 children!)
Anyway we solved it by buying an electric fence... the ones that go underground and the older dog now wears a collar. This keeps him within an acre around the house. The other dog doesn't stray alone.
Luckily our dogs had done no damage, but I was grateful for the alert from a local farmer.
Good luck with this. Not a simple task, keeping good relations AND getting the problem sorted.
Sal
...... ummmm must get hens again.... I used to keep Welsummers - beautiful chooks....
Ummmm....
I advise caution in the name and blame campaign; as Sally and I was trying to highlight (I think) animals are not the easiest to keep under control. You don't yet know how the dalmation dog owner "ticks" and I think its a dangerous assumption to believe he must be a baddie and needs naming and shaming (also even if the person does turn out to be ignorant and selfish when it comes to controlling the dog then the best outcome in the long run is to get the person better educated, co-operating and on your side - unless of course you believe the best recourse is to rely on the law
- in which case I wish you the best of luck now as you are surely going to need it ).
Honesty and diplomacy may well serve you better in the long run; both with the erant dog owner and members of the local community. Your policy may well back fire and if you are not careful you may get the reputation as the sort of person who stirs up trouble.
Just a thought.....
I advise caution in the name and blame campaign; as Sally and I was trying to highlight (I think) animals are not the easiest to keep under control. You don't yet know how the dalmation dog owner "ticks" and I think its a dangerous assumption to believe he must be a baddie and needs naming and shaming (also even if the person does turn out to be ignorant and selfish when it comes to controlling the dog then the best outcome in the long run is to get the person better educated, co-operating and on your side - unless of course you believe the best recourse is to rely on the law
- in which case I wish you the best of luck now as you are surely going to need it ).Honesty and diplomacy may well serve you better in the long run; both with the erant dog owner and members of the local community. Your policy may well back fire and if you are not careful you may get the reputation as the sort of person who stirs up trouble.
Just a thought.....
I know my dog is likely to chase birds. It's not something I've encouraged, and if I see a situation where it's likely to happen I will get him under control, but sometimes these things happen without warning. He's fine with farm animals and horses because I have been able to train him. I'd like to get some poultry soon, and am aware that I will have a very interesting bit of training to do. It's difficult unless you know someone who's prepared to let you use their birds to practise on. I'm lucky that he's not the kind of dog who goes off on his own.
I know there are irresponsible dog owners, and the only way to deal with them is probably through the law or naming and shaming. But there are also a lot of responsible people who either do their best not to cause problems or don't realise there is a problem until something happens, and a heavy handed approach would only make things worse in this case.
I know there are irresponsible dog owners, and the only way to deal with them is probably through the law or naming and shaming. But there are also a lot of responsible people who either do their best not to cause problems or don't realise there is a problem until something happens, and a heavy handed approach would only make things worse in this case.
I don't give a fig actually. I used to be a meek & mild: "Ooh, don't make a fuss ... it's embarassing" sort of person.Your policy may well back fire and if you are not careful you may get the reputation as the sort of person who stirs up trouble.
However a few years ago I was severely ill for a while ... I thought that I would not make 50 for a moment back there.
At about the same time I was subpoenaed as key witness in a $1+ bn US law case ... a rather bracing experience. One day in court being cross-examined by four of the world's top lawyers was like seven years of real-life. Apparently out of 80 witnesses I was about the only one who didn't come out wrecked & weeping. Very character forming!
Since then I tell it as it is. I start protest web sites at a whim .. and THEY WORK! The locals, various companies & a couple of government departments already know that I bite!
British reserve is over-rated ... it allows the freeloaders & exploiters to get what they want.
As Freddie Laker advised Richard Branson about the BA "dirty tricks": "Sue the bastards!"
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SarahSimcock
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You can report it to the police who may have a duty to investigate under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. There is a criminal offence of not keeping a dog under control. The court may also order measures to be taken against the dog, which might include destroying it. This may not get you compensation for your chickens though, although it might be open for the court to order it on conviction of the owner. You would need to present evidence of the cost to the court.
You may have a civil claim under the Animals Act 1971 section 2(2) which provides:
Where damage is caused by an animal which does not belong to a dangerous species, a keeper of the animal is liable for the damage, except as otherwise provided by this Act, if
(a) the damage is of a kind which the animal, unless restrained, was likely to cause or which, if caused by the animal, was likely to be severe; and
(b) the likelihood of the damage or of its being severe was due to characteristics of the animal which are not normally found in animals of the same species or are not normally so found except at particular times or in particular circumstances: and
(c) those characteristics were known to that keeper or were at any time known to a person who at that time had charge of the animal as that keeper?s servant or, where that keeper is the head of a household, were known to another keeper of the animal who is a member of that household and under the age of sixteen
This case may be helpful
In Curtis v Betts, [1990] 1 WLR 459 a bull mastiff dog sprang at a 10 year old child and bit him on the chin when the child approached the Landrover into which the dog was being loaded. The dog was on a lead. The court held that the dog was known by its owners to react fiercely when it considered its territory was threatened and they also knew that this dog regarded the Landrover as its territory. The owners of the dog were therefore liable.
See also the case of Mirvahedy in the House of Lords citation [2003] 2 WLR 882 (see http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2003/16.html)- essentially, for strict liability to be imposed under s.2(2)(b) the likelihood of damage or of it being severe had to be due to characteristics of the animal that were not normally found in animals of the same species or were not normally so found except at particular times or in particular circumstances. And you need to prove that the owner knew of the characteristic, you would need to get convincing witness evidence of the dog's propensity to attack animals and that the owners knew about it.
These cases are not always easy to win, but if it is allocated to the small claims track even if you lose you will not have to pay any of the Defendant's costs.
An asbo is unlikely to be appropriate considering the above options - and only the police or a local authority could bring the application, you could not insist upon it.
You may have a civil claim under the Animals Act 1971 section 2(2) which provides:
Where damage is caused by an animal which does not belong to a dangerous species, a keeper of the animal is liable for the damage, except as otherwise provided by this Act, if
(a) the damage is of a kind which the animal, unless restrained, was likely to cause or which, if caused by the animal, was likely to be severe; and
(b) the likelihood of the damage or of its being severe was due to characteristics of the animal which are not normally found in animals of the same species or are not normally so found except at particular times or in particular circumstances: and
(c) those characteristics were known to that keeper or were at any time known to a person who at that time had charge of the animal as that keeper?s servant or, where that keeper is the head of a household, were known to another keeper of the animal who is a member of that household and under the age of sixteen
This case may be helpful
In Curtis v Betts, [1990] 1 WLR 459 a bull mastiff dog sprang at a 10 year old child and bit him on the chin when the child approached the Landrover into which the dog was being loaded. The dog was on a lead. The court held that the dog was known by its owners to react fiercely when it considered its territory was threatened and they also knew that this dog regarded the Landrover as its territory. The owners of the dog were therefore liable.
See also the case of Mirvahedy in the House of Lords citation [2003] 2 WLR 882 (see http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2003/16.html)- essentially, for strict liability to be imposed under s.2(2)(b) the likelihood of damage or of it being severe had to be due to characteristics of the animal that were not normally found in animals of the same species or were not normally so found except at particular times or in particular circumstances. And you need to prove that the owner knew of the characteristic, you would need to get convincing witness evidence of the dog's propensity to attack animals and that the owners knew about it.
These cases are not always easy to win, but if it is allocated to the small claims track even if you lose you will not have to pay any of the Defendant's costs.
An asbo is unlikely to be appropriate considering the above options - and only the police or a local authority could bring the application, you could not insist upon it.
Vortex wrote:
I don't give a fig actually. I used to be a meek & mild: "Ooh, don't make a fuss ... it's embarassing" sort of person.
I also learnt a long time ago not to get embarassed; I suspect there are others whose "alternative lifestyle" children have drawn them through the virtual hedge backwards may agree. A 15 year old child who thinks nothing of doing a "woopsie" in his pants while in a hotel foyer then sticking his fingers in it or lying naked outside the house shouting "power rangers" etc etc is quite character building - believe me!!!!!
I too have had a near death experience although mine was a couple of days after I had finished my A levels when I was run over by a gravel lorry; weeks and weeks lying in traction in hospital halousinating on pain is also quite character building. This personal experience was to be "topped" again by my own son who went on to get leukaemia at the age of three and spent 2 years on chemotherapy.Vortex wrote:However a few years ago I was severely ill for a while ... I thought that I would not make 50 for a moment back there.
I also think that I "tell it as it is". I just happen to believe that we all make mistakes and mostly it is better to help to unite a community rather than divide it........ Obviously, there are many ways to skin a cat and ultimately the method is up to you.
Would that be with your teeth?vortex wrote: I bite!
Freddie Laker may have been a plucky son of a ......... and a hard nosed business man who was thwarted by others of the same ilk but all the acumen in the world and money he could muster (in fact is was all the money formed into a fast sports car) couldn't stop his son being killed in a car accident; in the end family and community are the most important things to treasure - not personal powervortex wrote:As Freddie Laker advised Richard Branson about the BA "dirty tricks": "Sue the bastards!"
Well if it were me I'd put up a fence becasue if I dog can get at your chickens that easy and kill them, then something is very wrong. I take it was the dog that somehow battered this door down and not the owner? Christ a fox will make mince meat of your set up by the sounds of it. As for shooting dogs, c'mon people!!!!! Get a grip!!!! I'd be very careful what you do next if I was you, if it was me and my dog I'd help you put up a fence tops! But then my dog is very well trained, but I do foster rescues now and then who have terrible probs and I train them up and get them back into good homes hence the owner doesnt have full control over their animals at all times. All I am offering here is the other side of the coin - you are of course right what has happend to you is wrong, but word to the wise if you shoot/or have a dog destroyed remember you may not know the owner and he/she may just pop down and shoot, stab or beat the sh*t out of you - people can be ficky about having their dog killed rofl 
Forget reporting it to the police that is sheer nonsense and a waste of their and your time. Contact your local dog warden he is the only one that can act on the law and s/he will do something about it. I'm not sure but I think the D-Dog act is for public places only - is the place where the chickens are at public? Like I said if it was me I'd contact the dog warden, they'd give you good advice and chase the matter up. In the mean time you clearly need to stop this happening again and other dogs dont care about posters nor do foxes
Ps mind you vortex if you got that AK47 you'd be sorted I used to go mad to find our chickens all piled up in a stack after a fox killed them all and only run off with one 
Got me a few airedales then and raised one with chickens, nothing ever came near them again and sorted out good fencing too
Forget reporting it to the police that is sheer nonsense and a waste of their and your time. Contact your local dog warden he is the only one that can act on the law and s/he will do something about it. I'm not sure but I think the D-Dog act is for public places only - is the place where the chickens are at public? Like I said if it was me I'd contact the dog warden, they'd give you good advice and chase the matter up. In the mean time you clearly need to stop this happening again and other dogs dont care about posters nor do foxes
Ps mind you vortex if you got that AK47 you'd be sorted
I used to go mad to find our chickens all piled up in a stack after a fox killed them all and only run off with one Got me a few airedales then and raised one with chickens, nothing ever came near them again and sorted out good fencing too MisterE wrote:Well if it were me I'd put up a fence becasue if I dog can get at your chickens that easy and kill them, then something is very wrong. )
Absolutely - look at yourself before blaming others
We have become a country of folks who mostly expect others (especially the law) to look after us when, and this is a very good example, the solutions are simple and based on truth.
I disagree. Something is wrong but it?s wrong on the dog owners part not Vortex?s.Pippa wrote:MisterE wrote:Well if it were me I'd put up a fence becasue if I dog can get at your chickens that easy and kill them, then something is very wrong. )
Absolutely - look at yourself before blaming others
We have become a country of folks who mostly expect others (especially the law) to look after us when, and this is a very good example, the solutions are simple and based on truth.
As a general rule, individuals have a responsibility to ensure they don?t inflict harm or damage on another person or their property. So, to my mind, the dog owner is at fault and Vortex should not have to lay out extra costs to protect the chickens from a dog or its owner.
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