Greece Watch...

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 25 Jul 2015, 19:00

johnhemming2 wrote:Probably higher in Greece, but the rest of the countries are unenthusiastic about paying the Greeks. Hence if you had a referendum in the other countries you would get a different outcome.

John, the entire thread is about Greece, Greece democratically voted how it voted, what anyone else thinks is irrelevant.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 25 Jul 2015, 20:21

Yes, but if the non Greek Eurozone and ECB don't give the Greeks money then they are a bit stuck.

Luckily for the Greeks they are getting a bit of money now.

Tell you what. I will have a referendum in my house as to whether everyone else should give us billions of Euros. Oddly enough the children are in favour of this. Can we have the cash please?

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 25 Jul 2015, 22:50

johnhemming2 wrote:Yes, but if the non Greek Eurozone and ECB don't give the Greeks money then they are a bit stuck.

Luckily for the Greeks they are getting a bit of money now.

Tell you what. I will have a referendum in my house as to whether everyone else should give us billions of Euros. Oddly enough the children are in favour of this. Can we have the cash please?

Bright kids, they obviously know about fiat money and quantitative easing, all they need's a central bank and it's game on, but then.....we're not really discussing cash handouts, are we John?....what we're actually talking about is debts as odious as your crude analogy of a democratic process partook by folk far wiser and informed than me and thee, dear friend.

At least you're consistent.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 26 Jul 2015, 08:38

Yes we are talking about loans probably do need to be rescheduled, but it is still money (and food etc) today on the condition that the Greek state does a number of things that are generally sensible. (Automatic cuts are not always the best, but the Greeks have no choice on that).

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 26 Jul 2015, 16:18

I think that austerity has its limits, John, because it depresses the economy to such a great extent that you end up with a spiral of lost government income and business failure which carries a country down into the pits. There has to be a happy medium where the government reduces it's outgoings over a long period so that the country avoids an out and out depression.

The only people who are going to win in the out and out depression scenario are the Greek rich and the rich outsiders who come in and pick up the bits very cheaply indeed. And that I think is the motive of the troika and the German nation: economic subjugation!

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 26 Jul 2015, 19:13

kenneal - lagger wrote:I think that austerity has its limit... And that I think is the motive of the troika and the German nation: economic subjugation!

Although I agree that austerity has limits, I think the motive of the Germans is to get back their money whilst helping the greeks.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 26 Jul 2015, 21:21

"Austerity" sounds sensible to the "man in the street" like myself, it's always implied that a countries' people have been living beyond their means, partying on borrowed money. Surely it's time for them to pay their way, isn't it ?

Or that's how it's played in the media.

Has anyone actually done the sums for Greece ? The sums that show how much money has been spent by Joe Publicdopoulis and how much squirreled away by Rich Bankerioannou ?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 26 Jul 2015, 21:53

no eye deer

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 26 Jul 2015, 21:58

The qualifications of the author of this are quite good.

Mark Blyth, Brown university professor of political economy and author of "Austerity." www.markblyth.com

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 26 Jul 2015, 22:10

It is an error to assume that academics are the font of all wisdom.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 26 Jul 2015, 22:15

johnhemming2 wrote:It is an error to assume that academics are the font of all wisdom.

Address the point made instead of providing us with your usual obfuscatory non-statement, bullshit if you please.

I wont hold my f***ing breath.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 26 Jul 2015, 22:16

What is "the point"?

tpals · Post by **tpals** » 26 Jul 2015, 22:28

Little John wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:It is an error to assume that academics are the font of all wisdom.
Address the point made instead of providing us with your usual obfuscatory non-statement, bullshit if you please.

I wont hold my ******* breath.

Try not to feed the troll.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jul 2015, 07:07

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... hma-return

Greece rocked by reports of secret plan to raid banks for drachma return

Opposition demands answers after covert proposals attributed to Yanis Varoufakis and fellow ex-minister highlight deep split in Syriza party.

Some members of Greece’s leftist-led government wanted to raid central bank reserves and hack taxpayer accounts to prepare a return to the drachma, according to reports that highlighted the chaos in the ruling Syriza party.

It is not clear how seriously the government considered the plans, attributed to former energy minister Panagiotis Lafazanis and ex-finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. Both ministers were sacked this month. However, the revelations have been seized on by opposition parties who are demanding an explanation.

The reports on Sunday came at the end of a week of fevered speculation over what Syriza hardliners had in mind as an alternative to the tough bailout terms Tsipras has reluctantly accepted to keep Greece in the eurozone.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Jul 2015, 07:13

Catweazle wrote:"Austerity" sounds sensible to the "man in the street"

I think much of this misconception in the public eye stems from Mrs Thatcher equating the national economy with the household economy. It was fundamentally wrong but very clever in the way it misled public understanding of economics.

Still, we'll probably see Johm Maynard Keynes in a walk-on role in tonight's costume drama:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02xcfqw