Greece Watch...

[johnhemming2]

[3rdRock]

No surprises there. Cartoon compliments of The Telegraph.

[3rdRock]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 81951.html

Meet the Goldman Sachs banker who got rich getting Greece into the euro.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 81926.html

Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping country hide debts when it joined euro.

[adam2]

Whilst the Geek parliament has accepted significant austerity, it remains to be seen if the EU, which in effect means Germany, will accept the Greek offer.

There seems to be a fairly widely accepted view that it is acceptable for the people of a country to vote not to return money borrowed by a previous government. "democracy in action" "the people are standing up to the bankers" "the debts are odious" and so on.

Such views may or may not be valid, but the fact that they are widely held must make borrowing more money problematic.

Who will willingly lend more money to Greece if it is considered acceptable for the Greek people to vote not to return it, and to blame the previous government for the problem.
Some people in Germany and elsewhere are demanding a referendum before any more of their money is "lent" to Greece.

[johnhemming2]

Human Rights do constrain the tyranny of the majority and Article 1 Protocol 1 is a valid part of the European Convention of Human Rights notwithstanding referenda and elections.
https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk ... n-property

[johnhemming2]

No surprises there. Cartoon compliments of The Telegraph.

Fallacy man sweeps in on an ad hominem attack.

The Telegraph have been stick in a dilemma whether to attack the EU or the Greek government and have had different articles doing both things.

The Guardian have gone for the conventional wisdom which prevails on this forum and would have to do a U turn to print such a cartoon.
.

[Tarrel]

Who will willingly lend more money to Greece if it is considered acceptable for the Greek people to vote not to return it, and to blame the previous government for the problem.
Some people in Germany and elsewhere are demanding a referendum before any more of their money is "lent" to Greece.

I don't think the political elite in Europe are making lending decisions based on ability or willingness of the borrower to pay. It's more a case of "how much money do we need to throw at this problem in order to prevent the great single-currency experiment from unravelling."

The people who those people represent may be more reticent about further lending however.

[johnhemming2]

I don't think the political elite in Europe are making lending decisions based on ability or willingness of the borrower to pay. It's more a case of "how much money do we need to throw at this problem in order to prevent the great single-currency experiment from unravelling."

If that were to be true there would have been no negotiations. The EZ wishes to ensure that Greece is financially stabilised and able to make some repayments which is where the arguments all lie.

[peaceful_life]

I don't think the political elite in Europe are making lending decisions based on ability or willingness of the borrower to pay. It's more a case of "how much money do we need to throw at this problem in order to prevent the great single-currency experiment from unravelling."

If that were to be true there would have been no negotiations. The EZ wishes to ensure that Greece is financially stabilised and able to make some repayments which is where the arguments all lie.

John, you've already stated that constraints reduce GDP, why are you persisting with this fallacious financial voodoo?

This isn't about money.

[biffvernon]

This isn't about money.

It's about caring.

http://time.com/3952885/pope-francis-bo ... ranscript/

[3rdRock]

No surprises there. Cartoon compliments of The Telegraph.

Fallacy man sweeps in on an ad hominem attack.

The Telegraph have been stick in a dilemma whether to attack the EU or the Greek government and have had different articles doing both things.

The Guardian have gone for the conventional wisdom which prevails on this forum and would have to do a U turn to print such a cartoon.
.

Sorry to disappoint you John, my comments were a reflection of my contempt for The Telegraph, not you.

With regard to The Guardian's position on the Greek crisis, I think that most of their reporting has been accurate and has definitely considered the human costs of this unholy mess. The same can be said of The Independent.

The Telegraph, on the other hand and by your own admission, have sat on the proverbial fence. At least the 'gutter press' have had the decency to show their true colours by supporting the banksters in their repeated attempts to belittle the Greek people.

[johnhemming2]

This isn't about money.

It's about caring.

http://time.com/3952885/pope-francis-bo ... ranscript/

Finance is all about the allocation of resources. If you wish to care about people and do something about it you need to have the resources to do this.

It remains, however, that people are free to send all of their spare resources/cash to Greece.

I accept that resources are about more than money. For example at the moment I have an old elecronic keyboard I bought in the 1990s (the one I use for gigging is one I bought in about 2003). Rather than waste it I would like to give it away to someone as it still works. There is no sense selling it We send a lot of things to freecycle.

[johnhemming2]

Sorry to disappoint you John, my comments were a reflection of my contempt for The Telegraph, not you.

Still an ad hominem attack, however.

The Telegraph, on the other hand and by your own admission, have sat on the proverbial fence.

Actually they have faced both ways which is quite different.

[biffvernon]

This isn't about money.

It's about caring.

http://time.com/3952885/pope-francis-bo ... ranscript/

Finance is all about the allocation of resources. If you wish to care about people and do something about it you need to have the resources to do this./quote]

Is that what the Liberal Party was about? Glad I never joined.
Caring is about allocation of resources to where they are needed rather than to those with the finance.

[johnhemming2]

The financial levers are how you allocate resources. I thought that was obvious.

If you care about people you should care about the practicability of any proposals to assist people.

If you don't care whether things work or not then you can no right to say you care about anything.