Alternatives to Austerity- a timely report

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 09 Jul 2015, 18:59

A new paper, by the Institute for Policy Research sets out clearly the causes of, and answers to, the current economic situation. The point that austerity is an ideological choice is soundly made and the author(s) provide a perspective that includes both the European situation and an appreciation for green economics (if not a full on understanding of limits to growth). Well worth a read.

http://www.bath.ac.uk/ipr/pdf/policy-br ... terity.pdf

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 09 Jul 2015, 19:57

Thanks for that Nexus. Only 16 pages - I think I can manage that before bedtime.

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 09 Jul 2015, 21:23

Thank you for posting this, Nexus.

It seemed to lean towards a more equitable contract, but I did find it very lacking in detail beyond it's outline intent and a bit fixated with Keynes.

Thanks again.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 09 Jul 2015, 23:13

aaaaarrrrrgggh. Limits to growth means austerity.

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 09 Jul 2015, 23:28

johnhemming2 wrote:aaaaarrrrrgggh. Limits to growth means austerity.

How are you defining and interpreting that word...austerity please John?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Jul 2015, 23:48

johnhemming2 wrote:aaaaarrrrrgggh. Limits to growth means austerity.

Yeah, but just for the proles....right?

Yeah...right.....My f***ing arse

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 10 Jul 2015, 06:55

Yes absolutely LJ.

John Hemming 2 - limits to growth is not the same as austerity. Limits to growth are about hard ecological facts regarding our planet and its natural resources which mean we should do everything in our power to 1) conserve them 2) create closed loops using sustainable resources and 3) where finite resources are used, use them EQUITABLY.

The 'austerity; agenda, as espoused by the coalition was ideologically driven (the continuation of Thatcher's dream) and there are alternatives, they are just unpalatable to rich politicians (of which John Hemming used to be one). The supine media is complicit in the 'there is no alternative' mantra .... but people are starting to wake up.

BTW anyone who spoke to voters during the election knows the reason the LDs crashed and burned- the majority of the people who voted for them in 2010 cannot and will not forgive them for going into coalition with the Tories.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 10 Jul 2015, 07:28

Limits to growth means fewer resources and a constraint on growth and most likely a reduction in economic activity. If there is less economic activity then there have to be some cuts of some form. It cannot be that the state consumes for ever a greater and greater proportion of the GDP - coming to a point at which it goes over 100%.

Defining austerity as cuts in government spending of some form.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 10 Jul 2015, 07:42

johnhemming2 wrote:Limits to growth means fewer resources and a constraint on growth and most likely a reduction in economic activity. If there is less economic activity then there have to be some cuts of some form. It cannot be that the state consumes for ever a greater and greater proportion of the GDP - coming to a point at which it goes over 100%.

Defining austerity as cuts in government spending of some form.

Rubbish! Why start with draconian welfare cuts? What about the billions owed to the exchequer in unpaid taxes?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 10 Jul 2015, 07:44

3rdRock wrote: Rubbish! Why start with draconian welfare cuts? What about the billions owed to the exchequer in unpaid taxes?

johnhemming2 wrote:Defining austerity as cuts in government spending of some form.

Note that in greece the U turn from Syriza includes cuts in defence spending as part of their austerity.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 10 Jul 2015, 08:06

johnhemming2 wrote:Limits to growth means fewer resources and a constraint on growth and most likely a reduction in economic activity. If there is less economic activity then there have to be some cuts of some form. It cannot be that the state consumes for ever a greater and greater proportion of the GDP - coming to a point at which it goes over 100%.

Defining austerity as cuts in government spending of some form.

We probably all agree with that. It's not the cuts but the form of cuts that counts. If we were all in it together, with cuts first imposed on those with most, then we'd sign up. The sum total of happiness is maximised when relative wealth is minimised. Absolute wealth is not so important.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 10 Jul 2015, 09:01

Biff- I don't agree with John Hemming's statement. The 'austerity' agenda is being proposed by people who don't understand limits to growth- they are still talking about growth as the goal.

What the 'austerity' agenda is all about is syphoning off as much as possible to the rich and leaving poorer people with an even smaller piece of the pie. That has nothing to do with LTG.

I completely agree with third rock and the infographic about tax avoidance is bang on.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 10 Jul 2015, 09:02

biffvernon wrote:It's not the cuts but the form of cuts that counts.

We can agree on this. Austerity is to some extent inevitable, but we need to look at how it operates in detail particularly to protect the poorer members of society.

Under the coalition government I studied the distributional analyses. I was particularly concerned about those by expenditure deciles.

These are complex issues where the details really matter and the narrative was often factually wrong.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 10 Jul 2015, 09:03

nexus wrote:What the 'austerity' agenda is all about is syphoning off as much as possible to the rich and leaving poorer people with an even smaller piece of the pie. That has nothing to do with LTG.

Austerity is about controlling government deficits in part through spending cuts.

The details of the policy choices are a separate issue. I am happy to defend the coalition record on this, but we are no longer in a coalition period.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 10 Jul 2015, 09:08

The initial report I posted and many economists (Piketty, Krugman, Stieglitz, Scott Cato and others) argue otherwise.

The austerity agenda is an ideological construct that served the purposes of the coalition and now the tory govt. very well.

And as 3rd rock pointed out there other ways to save money that are, interestingly, not seriously pursued.