Greece Watch...

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 06 Jul 2015, 13:58

Everything has gone a bit quiet, no?

I wonder what, if anything, is going on behind the scenes.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 06 Jul 2015, 14:08

Yanis Varoufakis, in his own writ.

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_a ... urope.html

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 06 Jul 2015, 14:47

Torygraph is predicting that Greek banks will be printing IOU notes as in

'I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one Euro*'

*Whilst stocks last.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Jul 2015, 14:48

Paul Mason's latest video blog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLXj ... aHNy51MEoM

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 06 Jul 2015, 15:09

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/germanys-gabr ... ml#ObWRQ0e

BERLIN (Reuters) - Greece must present a new offer that goes beyond its previous proposals if it wants to remain in the euro, German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel said on Monday, adding that Athens soon faced state insolvency.
Other European Union countries needed to prepare humanitarian aid for Greece, Gabriel said, but he stressed that the onus was on Athens to present credible proposals in order to remain in the currency union.
"If Greece wants to stay in the euro, the Greek government must quickly make a substantive offer that goes beyond its willingness thus far," Gabriel, who is also leader of Germany's centre-left Social Democrats, told a news conference.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 06 Jul 2015, 16:08

Owen Jones:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -europe-eu

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 06 Jul 2015, 16:35

Good to see that the new finance minister is called Euclid!

Not sure that John will like him as he's another academic with a similar background to that of Yanis Varoufakis.

He attended St Paul's School, London before reading Politics, Philosophy and Economics at the University of Oxford. He later completed a master's at The University of Sussex, and a doctorate in 1989 at the University of Oxford.

From 1989 to 1990, he worked as a researcher at the University of Kent. He taught at the Universities of Kent (October 1990 - June 1993) and Athens University of Economics and Business (October 1994 - September 2010). Since 2010, he has been Professor of Economics at the National and Kapodistrian University of Athens. His wife is British economist Heather D. Gibson.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... gotiations

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 06 Jul 2015, 16:52

I don't think that academics are inherently wrong. It is simply that just because someone is an academic does not mean that they are right.

To be fair although my degree is in Physics I may have attended some PPE lectures with him in the 1970s as we are contemporaries and in one term I went to more PPE lectures than physics ones. (I did get a degree in Physics).

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 06 Jul 2015, 17:03

biffvernon wrote:Owen Jones:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -europe-eu

This is essentially the argument that a democratic vote (whether legally valid or not does not matter for the purposes of debate at the moment) trumps an international treaty and democratic votes in other countries.

It is an argument for a movement away from the rule of international law and towards a politics of might is right. (as long as there is a plebiscite)

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 06 Jul 2015, 17:04

This review of Euclid's book, Crucible of Resistance: Greece, the Eurozone and the World Economic Crisis, gives some interesting background that I expect John won't like either.

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/crucible-of ... ic-crisis/

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 06 Jul 2015, 17:28

Little John wrote:Definition of Terrorism: the production of a state of fear and submission by terrorization

Upon learning of the Greek government's temerity to decide to put the Troika's ultimatum to the Greek people in a democratic referendum (referenda being anathema to most EU governments when it comes to anything relating to the EU), they had a veritable shit fit and deliberately forced the Greek government to shut their banking system down in advance of that referendum,. Meanwhile, in the days leading up to the referendum, the Germans and others, aided and abetted by a compliant MSM, went on a propaganda rampage designed to explicitly instil fear in the Greek people. In other words, to bully them into a "yes" vote. The fact that their strategy stupendously backfired is neither here nor there.

Varoufakis is right, They are terrorists

Not unlike what happened ahead of the Scottish independence referendum. However, at the last minute, the government realised that "Project Fear" wasn't working and came bearing (apparent) gifts instead.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Jul 2015, 17:55

johnhemming2 wrote:
biffvernon wrote:Owen Jones:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -europe-eu
This is essentially the argument that a democratic vote (whether legally valid or not does not matter for the purposes of debate at the moment) trumps an international treaty and democratic votes in other countries.

It is an argument for a movement away from the rule of international law and towards a politics of might is right. (as long as there is a plebiscite)

The "bailout" of Greece was nothing of the sort. Nor was it's technocratic government, pre-Syriza, that was levered into power, in any way democratic, The money that has been laundered through Greece has had one sole purpose; to scrub clean any hint of the state of the German banking system's balance sheets. And the Greek people have been sacrificed in that process. No matter that the debt has risen dramatically as a consequence of the Troika-imposed austerity; no matter that the people of Greece are suffering a depression not seen in peacetime. None of that matters, since the recovery of Greece was never what this was about.

[section deleted by author]

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 06 Jul 2015, 18:04

Little John wrote: All of which is why when a (ex)politician such as yourself, who comes from a party who have been kicked out of office...

Let him post though...please don't personally harass him so much that he leaves. His posts are making it all too obvious where the Liberal Democrats stand on these matters. For somebody on the left, John Hemming is much more useful posting on this site, showing the world that he's a fully-signed-up member of the status quo, happy to keep spreading the anti-Greek, pro-corporatist, pro-kleptocracy, pro-eurocrat propaganda our overlords want us to believe, than as a non-poster whose views remain hidden.

Varoufakis is not the fool John Hemming believes him to be. He's a deep-thinking academic who stands up for the ordinary people not only in Greece, but the wider EU. Something the Liberal Democrats ought to have done, but didn't.

And don't worry - they aren't even going to get a sniff of power any time soon. Those I've spoken to since the election have NOT learned the lesson they should have learned in May. They are still trying to defend what they have done, when in fact the only way forward for them is to admit they made some mistakes that were catastrophic for both the country and their party, apologise profusely and promise to never, ever again prop up a Tory administration.

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 06 Jul 2015, 18:18

“could it be that all the financial circus that we are seeing dancing in and around Greece is just the effect of much deeper causes? The effect of something that gnaws at the very foundations not only of Greece, but of the whole Western World?".......

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2015- ... -to-growth

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Jul 2015, 18:24

Okay, I need to give this forum a break for a few days as I am becoming seriously belligerent. UE, taking on board your advice, I have deleted a section of my previous post. I would appreciate it if you could cut out the belligerent sections of that post you quoted, so as to not render my deletion pointless. Though, I quite understand if you feel unable to.