Greece Watch...

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 01 Jul 2015, 14:57

Why are so many people here still in favour of the euro? I don't get it. It's only been going for 16 years (and only half being good times).

Are people afraid of spiteful consequences from euro members? Is life so much better now? Do they think things are going to eventually get better staying in the EZ?

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 01 Jul 2015, 15:00

The referendum will be regarded by many outside Greece as 'democratic' if it's a yes, not if it's a no.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 01 Jul 2015, 15:03

Snail wrote:Why are so many people here still in favour of the euro? I don't get it.

Its only real advantage to the ordinary individual citizen is when travelling to other euro countries. They're not 'in favour' particularly, they're just used to it. You may be thinking of the banks and the rest of the 1%ers.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Jul 2015, 16:06

Yeah, scrap the Euro and replace it with a UNo, a universal (or at least global) currency. UNo it makes sense.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 01 Jul 2015, 16:13

The opinion polls moved from 57% no to 46% no when the banks closed initially.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 01 Jul 2015, 16:40

biffvernon wrote:Yeah, scrap the Euro and replace it with a UNo, a universal (or at least global) currency.

We've already got one. It's called gold.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 01 Jul 2015, 18:41

The Troika and MSM are currently carrying out a successful hatchet job on Alexis Tsipras and the Syriza party.

Local difficulties in Greece are being screened across Europe in an attempt to undermine any remaining credibility he may have had, even with many of the Greeks who were initially supportive of his policies and prepared to vote 'No'.

I would now be amazed if Syriza succeeds in Sunday's referendum. Tsipras and his eloquent colleague, Yanis Varoufakis, will be consigned to history and the Greek people to a life of servitude and indignity.

A very sad end to what looked like a promising campaign to fight back against inequality.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 01 Jul 2015, 18:51

Sounds like Scotland

Post by **clv101** » 01 Jul 2015, 18:57

This episode should come as a wakeup call (if any were needed) to anyone doubting the power of those wanting to maintain the status quo.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 01 Jul 2015, 19:05

This will end with bloodshed. That is the only way it will end

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Jul 2015, 19:35

The Greek people have voted for a positive alternative to austerity, and I support their right to democratic self-determination.

In the months since the Greek election the negotiations have made clear that the eurozone is actually a neoliberal disciplining device. This has become a struggle between democracy and financial markets. Allowing financiers and corporations to prevail poses a serious threat to the principles of democracy in Europe.

It is clear that Greece cannot pay its debts. European Greens are calling for a debt conference to agree debt cancellation for Greece and other countries that need it. This must be funded by recovering money from the banks and financial speculators who were the beneficiaries of bailouts.

Austerity has enforced terrible suffering in Greece. Rather than adding further chapters to this Greek tragedy, the EU should be helping to unlock the huge potential Greece has for economic recovery by supporting investment in sustainable sectors of the economy. With the right investment, Greece could become the EU’s largest exporter of green energy.

Molly Scott Cato MEP

Green, South West England

European Parliament, Brussels

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Jul 2015, 20:52

http://supportgreens.eu/greece

Presidents, Prime Ministers, Chancellor,

Our European community of 28 countries and 500 million citizens is today under threat from within our very borders and institutions. Letting the current course of events continue to unfold will only allow this danger to grow.

EU leaders, you must lead the way out of this dangerous gridlock. You must move the EU forward. The current choice between two bad, expensive and dangerous options has to be overcome. Only in doing so will the EU avoid losing one of its members, its own credibility and the trust of its citizens.

We urge you to agree on a new deal: a deal that concentrates on the reforms in taxation, public administration, the fight against corruption and for a new economic dynamic. A deal that abstains from pro-cyclical austerity measures, which are economically self-defeating and socially irresponsible. A deal of real, sustainable investment. A deal to restructure and grant relief to Greek debt.

This is about the EU and not just about Greece. It is about our shared efforts to build a European democracy. If the idea of a united democratic Europe, delivering on its promise of shared freedom, peace and prosperity, can no longer find its architects of unity, it will falter and die. Therefore, we call on you, heads of state and government, including the Greek government, to pave the way for Greece's sustainable recovery on the basis of the deal proposed above.

Rebecca Harms and Philippe Lamberts
Co-Presidents of the Greens/EFA Group in the European Parliament

Monica Frassoni and Reinhard Bütikofer
Co-Chairs of the European Green Party

Sven Giegold and Ernest Urtasun
Members of the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs

Meyrem Almaci - Groen (Belgium)
Natalie Bennett - Green Party of England and Wales (UK)
Angelo Bonelli and Luana Zanella - Federazione dei Verdi (Italy)
Dolors Camats - Iniciativa per Catalunya Verds (Spain, Catalunya)
Jana Drápalová - Strana Zelených (Czech Republic)
Patrick Dupriez and Zakia Khattabi - Ecolo (Belgium)
Françoise Folmer - Déi Gréng (Luxembourg)
Rasmus Hansson - Miljøpartiet De Grønne (Norway)
Adam Ostolski and Malgorzata Tracz - Zieloni (Poland)
Simone Peter and Cem Özdemir - Bündnis 90/Die Grünen (Germany)
András Schiffer - Lehet Más a Politika (Hungary)

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Jul 2015, 21:07

Leading figures from both the Green Party of England and Wales and the Scottish Green Party have voiced support for Greece to reject the proposal from the Troika (the IMF, EU, and European Central Bank) that would involve further austerity imposed upon Greece.

Instead, they are supporting the Greek government’s calls for a European debt conference to agree on the cancellation of debt for Greece, along the lines of the 1953 conference that agreed to cancel 50% of Germany’s debt to governments, people and institutions outside the country, paving the way for Germany to recover from the Second World War.

More:
http://bright-green.org/2015/07/01/gree ... or-greece/

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 01 Jul 2015, 22:09

Little John wrote:This will end with bloodshed. That is the only way it will end

I don't think it will end with bloodshed. There may be more bloodshed in Greece, but it should be remembered that this has happened before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8661385.stm

I accept that the Greens align themselves with Syrizia and Podemos. That is one of the biggest reasons I disagree with the Greens.

My view is that if there are fewer resources available in any given circumstances then a form of austerity will be needed eg cuts. To me this is a mathematical truth that does need any proof beyond the basic rules of mathematics.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 01 Jul 2015, 22:12

3rdRock wrote:A very sad end to what looked like a promising campaign to fight back against inequality.

It was a campaign for Greek Pensioners to get more than Slovak pensioners paid for by the Slovaks (inter alia).