Greece Watch...

[peaceful_life]

One valid point. However, there is a production of usable energy.

The validity of the contract is a legal construct. Your view is not accepted in general. In general financial contracts are valid. If Greece tries to repudiate them on a unilateral basis it will not be accepted.

John, beyond semantics, we really don't have the ability to produce energy, we can exploit, extract, manipulate, enhance, harness, utilise, etc etc......but not produce.

Yes, exactly, it's a construct, not a universal constant and as such...should be re-cognised and re-constructed to suite policies of wellbeing, given these times of such colossal convergence.

You may find something worthy within this http://capitalinstitute.org/wp-content/ ... -final.pdf

The contract is invalid.

[biffvernon]

Ooops.

The IMF has been charging an effective interest rate of 3.6% on its loans to Greece. This is far more than the interest rate the institution needs to meet all its costs, currently around 0.9%. If this was the actual interest rate Greece had been paying the IMF since 2010, it would have spent €2.5 billion less on payments.

Out of its lending to all countries in debt crisis between 2010 and 2014 the IMF has made a total profit of €8.4 billion, over a quarter of which is effectively from Greece. All of this money has been added to the Fund’s reserves, which now total €19 billion. These reserves would be used to meet the costs from a country defaulting on repayments. Greece’s total debt to the IMF is currently €24 billion.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/ ... ece-loans/

[biffvernon]

As the crisis in Greece continues to unfold, Molly Scott Cato, Green MEP for the South West, who is a professor of economics and sits on the European Parliament’s Economics Committee, has issued a statement. She said:

“People in Greece are suffering because they are the victims of financial markets and not the authors of their own fate. I am appalled at the suggestion that pensioners should see their incomes cut and the poor should face paying more for energy just so that distant creditors can benefit.

“I applaud the decision of the Greek people to vote for a positive alternative to the politics of austerity and I support their right to democratic self-determination.

“In the months since the Greek election the negotiations have made clear that the Eurozone is actually a neoliberal disciplining device. We are all suffering attacks on our democratic and social rights because of neoliberal ideology but Greece is the most extreme example. We need to stand in solidarity and resist the attacks on these rights which we have taken for granted for 70 years.

“Greece cannot pay its debts and a restructuring and debt forgiveness, based on the legal principle that recognises some of the debt as ‘odious’, is urgently needed.

“What happens in Greece is of vital importance to Europe and the world because democracy is being tested. If the EU challenges the democratic will of the people in order to allow the greed, wealth and power of financiers and corporations to prevail this represents a serious threat to the very principle of democracy.”

The Ecologist Green Party in Greece is part of the Syriza coalition government that has promised a referendum on Sunday asking Greek citizens if they will or will not support further austerity proposals. Molly is pushing for the solutions proposed by the Greens in Europe which include a special debt conference to agree debt cancellation for Greece and a ‘Green Recovery plan’. Dr Scott Cato added:

“Austerity has enforced terrible human suffering in Greece. Rather than adding further chapters to this Greek tragedy, The EU could and should be helping to unlock the huge potential Greece has for economic recovery by supporting investment in sustainable sectors of the economy. With the right investment, Greece could become the EU’s largest exporter of green energy, helping other countries meet their EU renewables targets while simultaneously helping the Greek economy to recover.”

http://mollymep.org.uk/2015/06/30/greek ... omist-mep/

[clv101]

...really don't have the ability to produce energy,

Indeed, I've always favoured the term oil extraction over the industry's preferred term of production.

With the Greece situation, all I can see is that someone has to take a haircut - I expect it to be both the creditors (who should have been wise enough to recognise the risks associated) and the Greek people, many of whom are likely to feel a lot poorer in the months and years to come. However, they are a well educated population and assuming they stay within the EU there's no reason why the economy can't grow again as Iceland did, as Argentina did... In fact Argentina is an interesting one as their GDP fell a lot more than Greece's has but rebounded swiftly.

It's totally irrational to expect the Greeks to pay back the capital owed, and also unrealistic to expect even modest interest to be forthcoming. Sooner they default and leave the Eurozone the better for all concerned.

[peaceful_life]

...really don't have the ability to produce energy,

Indeed, I've always favoured the term oil extraction over the industry's preferred term of production.

With the Greece situation, all I can see is that someone has to take a haircut - I expect it to be both the creditors (who should have been wise enough to recognise the risks associated) and the Greek people, many of whom are likely to feel a lot poorer in the months and years to come. However, they are a well educated population and assuming they stay within the EU there's no reason why the economy can't grow again as Iceland did, as Argentina did... In fact Argentina is an interesting one as their GDP fell a lot more than Greece's has but rebounded swiftly.

It's totally irrational to expect the Greeks to pay back the capital owed, and also unrealistic to expect even modest interest to be forthcoming. Sooner they default and leave the Eurozone the better for all concerned.

With the proviso that those of the Greek people that can well afford it, take the biggest snip.

I think growth, has to be completely rethought and transformed to a situation whereby we pay ourselves a living in mitigating against the worst to come.

[johnhemming2]

It's totally irrational to expect the Greeks to pay back the capital owed, and also unrealistic to expect even modest interest to be forthcoming. Sooner they default and leave the Eurozone the better for all concerned.

They will default tonight. However, creating a new currency is not an overnight project. In the mean time their economy and the Greek people will suffer in lots of ways. If the government had said when elected they were leaving the Euro then a plan could have been put in place.

What the Greeks pay to the creditors can vary, but it is not irrational to expect them to pay something substantial.






In trying to work out why I could not use "quote" I changed my email address and have had to re-register because the verification email has not got through my spam filter.

[biffvernon]

Welcome to PowerSwitch, johnhemming2

[biffvernon]

Greece goes RBE - Greece's anti austerity government have announced they will not be paying back their debt to the EU in any shape of form.
Neither will they be joining Russia and China and the other Bric countries.
But instead will move immediately away from a consumption growth economy to a Resource Based Economy.
Prime minister Alexis Tsipras has let it be known since elected his party has secretly been instructing Greece greatest minds to solve the country's immediate problems related to resources and people.
It is understood this has now been achieved and Greece are in a position to implement a new socioeconomic model.
Greek scientists are believed to have possession of technology which can harness the energy from the sun to power the whole country.
With the application of vertical hydrophobic food farms and advancements in farming the ocean it appears Greece is more than capable of catering for its 11 million occupants and of being totally self sufficient,not needing to trade with the outside world and being totally independent.
Social planners working with human behaviour experts will design a new system based on opportunity instead of competition of access and not ownership.
The system will detach itself from the old ways in so much as the purpose will be to reduce employment and jobs are far as possible through automation with the driving motive based firmly in necessity rather than our current model which invents jobs to satify a system of wage slavery which is used to keep in place structures of heirachy which favour the few.
Economic minister Yanis Bar our skis said "we believe the country's basic needs can be met at present by the available workforce working only 8 hours a week"
"Education will be free promoted and encouraged throughout the lifespan of every Greek and the retirement age will be in the region of 35-45 years of age for most people. ..although it is felt once the unnecessary stresses of the old system are removedand everyones basic needs are met as a birthright and guaranteed, people will want to contribute to ensure the system works smoothly and is progressive supplying more time and working hours if necessary"
Tsipras added "Greece gave the world democracy. ..now we 're having it back and raising you evolution" before muttering in to the microphone "nnyaivw akata Europe and your childish money games"
This has yet to be deciphered.
With camera's still rolling Varoufakis was asked "if he knew what he was doing" by the visibly shaken German finance minister Barbara Smitt.
Varoufakis replied "humous understand we Greeks do not wish to be abzorba'ed into a corporate Europe.
We have a better way and that's the key base

Source: a random post to my facebook timeline.

[Tarrel]

23.04h on Default Day. Just seen a live report from Athens on BBC. Athens is still there.

[raspberry-blower]

Today's Keiser Report

[vtsnowedin]

Secret documents show creditors’ baseline estimate puts debt at 118% of GDP in 2030, even if it signs up to all tax and spending reforms demanded by troika.

I don't care for this measure of public debt. It makes it appear that the country is broke because it fails to mention that GDP is "per year" so a country that is in debt 118% of GDP is 430 days behind.
On a personal level if you Made $50,000 a year and bought a $200,000 house on that day your debt would be 400% of your GPP ( gross personal product) but people do that all the time as the payments on a 5% mortgage would be about $10,000 a year and the taxes about $4000 a year. hell you might even go out and buy a truck at $6000 a year to go to work and keep that $50K coming in.

[kenneal - lagger]

John, the Capitalist system died the moment we had the first corporation that was "too big to fail". From that moment on we became part of the Corporatist system where everything is done for the benefit of the large corporations and the corporations ensure that it is so by paying for the political and academic systems and by controlling the press.

Have you seen the book by a former vice chairman of the LibDems, Donnachadh McCarthy, The Prostitute State? If you haven't you really should read it and at £12 it is a snip. Available from www.theprostitutestate.co.uk.

[3rdRock]

John, the Capitalist system died the moment we had the first corporation that was "too big to fail". From that moment on we became part of the Corporatist system where everything is done for the benefit of the large corporations and the corporations ensure that it is so by paying for the political and academic systems and by controlling the press.

Have you seen the book by a former vice chairman of the LibDems, Donnachadh McCarthy, The Prostitute State? If you haven't you really should read it and at £12 it is a snip. Available from www.theprostitutestate.co.uk.

He should also read Naomi Klein's 'No Logo' and 'The Shock Doctrine'.

[3rdRock]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... l-lifeline

Greek failure to make IMF payment deals historic blow to eurozone

Greece was left alone, insolvent and almost bankrupt after five years of €240bn (£170bn) in European bailouts dried up and the country became the first in the EU to default on its creditors. The country failed to make a €1.5bn payment to the International Monetary Fund on time and has thrust the eurozone into an emergency.

The long-running debt debacle left Greece on the brink of financial collapse, worsening recent years of wrenching austerity, and represented a historic blow to a Europe committed to the irreversibility of its 16-year-old single currency.

The deadline on Greece’s bailout programmes, inaugurated in 2010, ended at midnight on Tuesday night, leaving the country without a financial lifeline.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07 ... indiegogo/

Greek Bailout Crowdfunding Campaign Raises Half A Million; Crashes Indiegogo

[peaceful_life]

John, the Capitalist system died the moment we had the first corporation that was "too big to fail". From that moment on we became part of the Corporatist system where everything is done for the benefit of the large corporations and the corporations ensure that it is so by paying for the political and academic systems and by controlling the press.

Have you seen the book by a former vice chairman of the LibDems, Donnachadh McCarthy, The Prostitute State? If you haven't you really should read it and at £12 it is a snip. Available from www.theprostitutestate.co.uk.

Evidently, we're just not wearing enough hats...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ