Greece Watch...

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Jun 2015, 11:29

johnhemming wrote: If they really had to arrange a referendum they should have done this months ago.

They did, but they called it a General Election!

Now they're doing it again to add a belt to the braces.

johnhemming · Post by **johnhemming** » 27 Jun 2015, 12:32

They were talking about referendum a couple of months ago. The problem is the conflict between trying to get the rest of Europe to pay for their governmental deficit and remaining within the Eurozone.

OrraLoon · Post by **OrraLoon** » 27 Jun 2015, 12:36

biffvernon wrote:Tangential but pertinent views expressed in some of these letters to the Guardian, but I suppose John doesn't agree with all of them:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... erwhelming

Suggestions on Guardian page from Greek politicians that referendum on financial matters could be unconstitutional -- so could Syriza come straight back with a pro/anti EU referendum?

johnhemming · Post by **johnhemming** » 27 Jun 2015, 12:40

I was challengin "little john" on this comment:
>Printing money is precisely how the EU and USA has dealt with it's banking crisis, which is what has largely led to the sovereign deficits in many European countries, including Greece.

I don't think printing money has caused the sovereign deficits anywhere.

If you are looking at the cause of the financial problem in the UK. There are four combined causes:
a) The failure to properly regulate the credit risk of bill clinton's loans to people unable to pay them back.
b) The regular overvaluing of property cycle.
c) State overspending in the good times (particularly in the UK) and ...
d) A spike in the price of oil caused by the depletion of conventional oil production of which peaked in the 2005-7 period.

d) was the the stimulus that kicked the global economy into recession.

However, the deficits were not caused by printing money.

I had a conversation with the previous cabinet secretary about UK spending and the result of that conversation is on my blog somewhere in terms of the domestic overspending.

Post by **adam2** » 27 Jun 2015, 14:56

Doubt are being expressed as to whether or not the European Central Bank can or should carry on supporting Greek banks.

It could reasonably be argued that further support is prohibited under ECB rules.

Details here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33297621

Most Greek banks would fail in a day or two without ongoing bailouts.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2015, 15:43

http://washpost.bloomberg.com/Story?doc ... 70N6NM2GC9

Greeks Line Up at Banks and Drain ATMs as Tsipras Calls Vote

Two senior Greek retail bank executives said as many as 500 of the country’s more than 7,000 ATMs had run out of cash as of Saturday morning, and that some lenders may not be able to open on Monday unless there was an emergency liquidity injection from the Bank of Greece. A central bank spokesman said it was making efforts to supply money to the system.

Some banks were placing limits in daily bank note and ATM transactions. Yiota Kardogianni, a manager at a branch of Piraeus Bank SA, said cash withdrawals were limited at 3,000 euros ($3,350) daily and ATM withdrawals at 600 euros. Alpha Bank AE had set a daily limit of 5,000 euros for most of its branches since last week.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2015, 16:17

http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-bail ... 1435393252

Eurozone Finance Ministers Reject Greek Request for One-Month Bailout Extension

Greece asked for a one-month extension of its expiring rescue deal, but the request was swiftly rejected by the rest of the eurozone, three European officials said Saturday.

http://www.politico.eu/article/greece-e ... eurogroup/

Greece heads toward euro exit, Eurogroup rejects extension

"Looks like we're heading for Grexit," said a source in the finance ministers' meeting.

Post by **adam2** » 27 Jun 2015, 16:20

If 500 out of 7000 ATMs are empty already, then I expect that those not yet empty will be in great demand and that most of them will be empty by Monday.

Post by **adam2** » 27 Jun 2015, 17:03

"bailout extension refused"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33300543

I don't know if it means what it says, or if some last minute deal will be done, and called something else.

johnhemming · Post by **johnhemming** » 27 Jun 2015, 17:39

I think it means what it says. What the ECB will do if, of course, a different question.

The behaviour of Syrizia has been unprofessional and likely to irritate the other countries. Hence they should not expect any toleration in the margins.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 27 Jun 2015, 18:34

johnhemming wrote:I think it means what it says. What the ECB will do if, of course, a different question.

The behaviour of Syrizia has been unprofessional and likely to irritate the other countries. Hence they should not expect any toleration in the margins.

Unprofessional?

Unprofessional!?

But, then, being a [failed] UK politician, especially coming from the treacherous party you do, you will know all about betraying the democratic will of the people who voted for you.

For good or for ill, they are enacting the democratic will of their f***ing people! You may disagree or agree with what they are doing. Vociferously so, if you want. but, I have heard enough from you on here airily dismissing the democratic will of the Greek people not to be driven any further into the dirt in order to hold up the German banking system and, by implication, the German economy. As it happens, I don't blame the German PEOPLE for not wanting to push money into the bottomless pit that is Greece. But, these are all SYMPTOMS of a SYSTEM that is utterly corrupt. It is also a symptom of a system with profound and anti-democratic internal contradictions. This criss is the result of a half-formed and half baked Euro-elite who have only partially implemented their dream of a United States of Europe. Where these contradictions were always likely to end in this kind of crises. And where, when one finally hits, they demonstrate themselves to be entirely incapable of doing what their dream implies.

johnhemming · Post by **johnhemming** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:19

International treaties have to be stuck by or renegotiated. The fact that the Greeks voted for the Eurozone to fund retirement at 50 is no reason why the Eurozone have to comply.

If they really had to have a referendum it should have been arranged before the deadline not after it.

I was elected to get a fairer system for student finance and that result was achieved.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:28

Hot off the press: Eurogroup Statement On Greece

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/press-re ... 986_en.pdf

johnhemming · Post by **johnhemming** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:29

>[1] Supported by all members of the Eurogroup except the Greek member.

The other finance ministers are not idiots like Varoufakis.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:34

johnhemming wrote:I was elected to get a fairer system for student finance and that result was achieved.

One thing's for sure John, it'll be a cold day in hell before many former Liberal Party voters return to the fold after your party's performance over the last five years.