Moderator: Peak Moderation
People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday.
Francis issued his toughest condemnation to date of the weapons industry at a rally of thousands of young people at the end of the first day of his trip to the Italian city of Turin.
The root of many wars is access to land/oil/food/water etc. which all have over population at their core. More people = more pressure on resources = more wars. Fewer people = less pressure on resources = less conflict.biffvernon wrote:Yesterday he took a swipe at arms manufacturers and dealers
Exactly where in the encyclical does he actually advocate an EVER GROWING population?Mark wrote:seems to be advocating an EVER GROWING population......
Semantics maybe, but this reads to me that he is happy to advocate an ever growing population.....it must nonetheless be recognized that demographic growth is fully compatible with an integral and shared development
or MONEY!Mark wrote:Semantics maybe, but this reads to me that he is happy to advocate an ever growing population.....it must nonetheless be recognized that demographic growth is fully compatible with an integral and shared development
The influence of the Catholic Church may be reduced in western democracies such as Italy & Spain, but it is still alive and kicking in South America, the Philippines, parts of Africa..... If he believes that global warming is such an issue, he should use his influence in areas where he can have the greatest impact (birth control) rather than areas already well covered (such as advising people to switch the lights off).
If this sounds like an anti-Catholic rant, I think that the leaders of the other major religions should also be speaking out about birth control.... They won't though - more kids = more followers.... Very few politicians will touch the subject either, as there are no votes in it.....
I don't subscribe to the idea that because someone says something stupid we should dismiss everything else they say as stupid. Equally, just because someone said/did something amazing in the past it doesn't follow that there'll be any sense in anything else they say or do.Mark wrote:Until the Catholic Church come to their senses on this fundamental issue, they can't preach on environmental issues with any credibility.
http://www.postcarbon.org/pope-francis- ... ncyclical/This could be big.
Religious and ethical impulses are powerful shapers of human behavior. That’s why, here in the US, corporate leaders long ago found ways to use religion to promote the notions that extreme economic inequality is perfectly fine with the Almighty, and that government regulations are the work of the devil (the story is recounted in this helpful article).
Today we are faced with the mother of all environmental crises (otherwise known as climate change), to which markets and pro-growth governments can provide no adequate response. Meanwhile the rapid economic expansion that characterized the late 20th century is ending, and the winners of that fossil-fueled lottery are intent on maintaining and strengthening their hold on the world’s eroding wealth. If humanity is to alter course toward environmental and social sustainability, only a profound, pervasive change of heart can inspire the kinds of shared sacrifice and collective effort that will be needed.
It’s at this pivotal moment that a new pope appears on the scene urging exactly that kind of change of heart. The papal encyclical released today (written entirely by Pope Francis) is a 190-page urgent call to action on two issues—climate change and economic inequality—that frames both issues in ethical, spiritual, and religious terms.
Conservative politicians and business leaders are bound to be unhappy, but they would be foolish to try discrediting the messenger. That’s because Pope Francis has attained rock star status; he’s even graced the cover of Rolling Stone. The “Francis effect” is bringing young Catholics back to church vocations, and Raúl Castro is so smitten with the “people’s pontiff” that the communist leader says he’ll even consider going to church. After decades of allegations and court cases about priests abusing children, Catholics now have a figurehead whose positive poll numbers surpass those of any predecessor since such surveys began.
And he’s a populist environmentalist. Jorge Mario Bergoglio, born in Argentina, chose the papal name Francis in solidarity with Catholicism’s most ecological of saints. Francis of Assisi adopted a lifestyle of voluntary poverty and preached the duty of humanity to protect and enjoy nature; Pope Francis is following in those same footsteps.
Real action on issues of climate change and economic inequality will require sustained hard work, and as that work proceeds currently wealthy swathes of the world’s populace will see their living standards erode substantially. Ahead lies resistance and conflict—that almost goes without saying. But now that the world’s most iconic and popular religious figure has weighed in on the side of the underdogs, the fight could get interesting.
Sophie Yeo, writing for Carbon Brief, gave a good account of the breadth and depth of advice that the Pope received.(written entirely by Pope Francis)
It's well worth reading the whole article:Thanks to the personal involvement of Francis, who himself once worked as a chemist in Argentina, the scientists' stamp appears throughout the document.
Cardinal Turkson, president of the Pontifical Council for Peace and Justice, wrote the first draft, with Francis steering it into its final shape, taking a week in March to finesse the final edition.
Semantics? 'recognized' has a very different meaning to 'advocate'.Mark wrote:Semantics maybe, but this reads to me that he is happy to advocate an ever growing population.....it must nonetheless be recognized that demographic growth is fully compatible with an integral and shared development
The influence of the Catholic Church may be reduced in western democracies such as Italy & Spain, but it is still alive and kicking in South America,...
it must nonetheless be recognized - must be recognised ? by whom ? not by me....biffvernon wrote:Semantics? 'recognized' has a very different meaning to 'advocate'.Mark wrote:Semantics maybe, but this reads to me that he is happy to advocate an ever growing population.....it must nonetheless be recognized that demographic growth is fully compatible with an integral and shared development
The influence of the Catholic Church may be reduced in western democracies such as Italy & Spain, but it is still alive and kicking in South America,...
There is little correlation between total fertility rate and Catholicism and to suggest that a high birth rate is still alive and kicking in South America is at variance with the data. TFR in Brazil is 1.69, Argentina 2.3, Chile 1.9. By comparison, the UK TFR is also 1.9 and the World average is 2.5. The Philipenes does come in a bit higher, at 3.06, but even this Catholic country ranks only 53rd in the TFR league table.
No, 'breeding like rabbits', which the Pope said we do not have to do, is confined to the poorest countries, and social justice that removes these wealth disparities is at the heart of Laudato Si. This Pope wants us to stop global warming and have a sustainable population.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... ility_rate
Not wrong. One can only judge by deeds, not words. Judgement day has not arrived.biffvernon wrote:I do think it is wrong to criticise Laudato Si for the sins of commission and omission that are outwith the purpose of this encyclical.
