General Election May 2015

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 05 May 2015, 05:53

Catweazle wrote:
clv101 wrote:I expected this election campaign to be one of the 'nastiest' in a long time... it's turned out not nearly as exciting, and just the stupidest campaign I can remember. Every interview I heard from a senior Tory, Labour or LibDem has mostly been ridiculous.

Silver lining is how amusing it'll be to see how they backtrack on the pre-election rhetoric in the post-election reality.
What can they say ? They all know that the game is nearly up, they can't point out the futility of their opponents policies without exposing the futility of their own.

The main parties are still talking about "recovery" as if it's possible, they can't afford to tell people it isn't because people really want to believe it can happen, and if the main parties admit the game is up then people will vote for whatever crackpot party claims to be able to "fix" things.

UKIP is proof.

As far as I can see that's hit the nail squarely on the head.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 05 May 2015, 08:59

Here's an above average piece from Adam Ramsay:

http://bright-green.org/2015/05/04/a-cr ... n-will-do/

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 May 2015, 13:47

clv101 wrote:I expected this election campaign to be one of the 'nastiest' in a long time... it's turned out not nearly as exciting, and just the stupidest campaign I can remember.

It has been very dull indeed.

Post by **clv101** » 05 May 2015, 17:12

I now think a likely outcome is a grand coalition in all but name. On the big issues Labour and Conservatives are so similar they are likely to vote together, which ever is officially in 'opposition'.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 May 2015, 17:46

clv101 wrote:I now think a likely outcome is a grand coalition in all but name. On the big issues Labour and Conservatives are so similar they are likely to vote together, which ever is officially in 'opposition'.

Hmmm. But who gets to be Prime Minister???

I can't imagine Labour and Conservative working together on very much, personally. I'd still put my money on a minority Labour government.

Post by **clv101** » 05 May 2015, 18:15

Yeah, I think the minority Labour government is likely - but in practice all their proposals will either be supported by the Tories (Trident renewable for example) or the SNP...

I doubt such a Labour government would bring forward legislation that neither the Tories or SNP would support. The Government will last until such time they do!

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 06 May 2015, 04:57

The corporations will get all they want passed by whatever government we have and then there might be another election. There won't be much in it for you and I!

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 06 May 2015, 05:20

clv101 wrote:Yeah, I think the minority Labour government is likely - but in practice all their proposals will either be supported by the Tories (Trident renewable for example) or the SNP...

I doubt such a Labour government would bring forward legislation that neither the Tories or SNP would support. The Government will last until such time they do!

Hmmm. I'm not so sure. They could bring forward plenty of legislation that the Tories don't support. As already pointed out - the SNP are probably going to be in a position where they'll have no mathematical possibility of gaining anything by bringing down that minority labour government and a very real risk of either losing seats or watching a Tory PM replace Miliband. If so, Miliband will be in a stronger position as leader of a minority government than Cameron was as leader of the coalition.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 06 May 2015, 10:04

kenneal - lagger wrote:The corporations will get all they want passed by whatever government we have and then there might be another election. There won't be much in it for you and I!

So so true. Aren't we fixed to a five year term now or was that a one-off? Five years of stalemate....

Mind you it happened in Belgium a while back to no ill-effect.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 06 May 2015, 11:46

SleeperService wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:The corporations will get all they want passed by whatever government we have and then there might be another election. There won't be much in it for you and I!
So so true. Aren't we fixed to a five year term now or was that a one-off? Five years of stalemate....

It's a fixed 5 year term from the point of the formation of the new government, unless there is a vote of no confidence. Last time (IIRC) the coalition also agreed, as part of their coalition agreement, that there would be no votes of no confidence. This time, assuming a labour minority government dependent on SNP votes but without a formal agreement, the SNP could call and win (with tory support) a vote of no confidence at any time, but is very hard to imagine the circumstances under which they'd actually do this.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 06 May 2015, 12:15

So instead of a neo-liberal Tory government (which has nothing at all to do with conserving anything except power for the elite) with a bit of liberal-wash coating, we get a neo-liberal NewLabour government (which has nothing at all to do with rights of labourers ) with an even more flaky socialist-wash coating, because it is not based on a formal coalition, and the Tories would back labour in a no-confidence vote triggered by the SNP, because any deal-breaking issue for the SNP the Tories would support instinctively.

No wonder Russel says don't vote.

frank_begbie · Post by **frank_begbie** » 06 May 2015, 13:16

I suppose when we have politicians spouting constant lies about one and other and spreading the fear factor, we can't have anything but a confused electorate.

To hear them all talk you would think they can actually do anything about the mess we're actually in.

The way I see it is we've had either Labour or Tory in power for the last 50 years, but nothing has improved for the common man in that time.

But people have been conned into thinking there is no alternative, so end up voting for one of the main parties again, or just not bothering.

Its a sad state of affairs all round.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 06 May 2015, 13:48

PS_RalphW wrote:So instead of a neo-liberal Tory government (which has nothing at all to do with conserving anything except power for the elite) with a bit of liberal-wash coating, we get a neo-liberal NewLabour government (which has nothing at all to do with rights of labourers ) with an even more flaky socialist-wash coating, because it is not based on a formal coalition, and the Tories would back labour in a no-confidence vote triggered by the SNP, because any deal-breaking issue for the SNP the Tories would support instinctively.

Well, that's an interesting question. The biggest point of contention is likely to be the renewal of Trident. Let's imagine the SNP are so annoyed about this that they trigger a no-confidence vote, even though this extremely risky for them and at the end of the day they aren't going to be able to prevent the renewal of trident anyway. But let's say they are just very miffed and want to make a point, even if it involves cutting off their own nose.

Then the tories have to choose: they could either support labour in the no confidence vote in order to get Trident renewed, but miss the opportunity to force an early election, or they could vote with the SNP to bring down the Miliband government in the hope of an improved position after the early election meaning the replacement of Miliband with a Tory prime minister.

It will make fascinating watching if it happens, and I have no idea what would happen. Either way, it's extremely messy.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 May 2015, 15:12

If that situation arose, my guess is they'd make a calculation on the feasibility of winning any election that ensued from voting labour down and, if that calculation was a positive one, they'd vote them down. They'd then sell their actions to the electorate by saying something along the lines of them not having any intention of getting rid of Trident when they get re-elected and that their voting down of labour on this point was in order to "save the country".

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 06 May 2015, 15:23

The Tories took the wrong option at the last election by taking the reins. If they had let a Lab/Lib coalition take the reins and really screw the country up as they did in the seventies, instead of taking it on half screwed up, they would have been looking at a landslide now.

I'm not sure what would have/is better; a country where none of the voters want a coalition but everyone is going to get one or one where we have a strong government but it is run by the corporations. I suppose that, for the benefit of the environment, a government where nothing gets done and we all go to hell in a handcart is the best option.

I have a feeling though that whatever happens the corporate lobbyists will ensure that their agenda is pushed through, no matter what, and the rest of us will go to hell in the proverbial...

I watched the program about Victorian Britain again last night and I thought that that is where we are going back to again; a country of poor workers lorded over by a very rich Kleptocracy (Bloody hell! I wrote "elite" first off. Shows how we have been brainwashed that I could so easily write such sacrilegious tripe).