General Election May 2015

[Tarrel]

Paul Krugman attacks Tory, Lib Dem and Labour “obsession” with austerity

https://commonspace.scot/articles/1199/ ... -austerity

A NOBEL-prize winning economist has lambasted Tory, Labour and Lib Dem plans for more austerity after the General Election, describing it as an “obsession” that has been “laughed out of the discourse elsewhere”.

Paul Krugman wrote in The Guardian that the Tories claim that its austerity policies helped Britain’s economic recovery are untrue, arguing that the recovery only started in the UK half way through the coalition government’s term in office because Chancellor George Osborne abandoned plans to cut the deficit in five years.

“Harsh austerity in depressed economies isn’t necessary, and does major damage when it is imposed. That was true of Britain five years ago – and it’s still true today,” Krugman said.

[kenneal - lagger]

The austerity claim is laughable really as it only applies to the less wealthy sections of society. It is just a euphemism for the increased rate of transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest members of society.

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32542765

Ms Sturgeon said people would be appalled by Mr Miliband's refusal to consider a deal with her party.

"He sounded as if he was saying that he would rather see David Cameron and the Conservatives back in government than actually work with the SNP," she said.

"Now, if he means that then I don't think people in Scotland will ever forgive Labour for allowing the Conservatives back into office.

Should it happen, the people of Scotland would have nobody to blame but themselves. If they vote SNP in the belief that it is a "safe" protest vote, even though Ed Miliband has very explicitly ruled out any sort of deal with the SNP, and they end up with a minority tory government instead, then how is that Labour's fault? Perhaps next time they won't feel so confident protesting and will vote Labour instead. If it wasn't for non-nationalist socialists voting SNP in Scotland, we'd be looking at a Labour majority on May 8th.

It is simply not in Labour's long-term best interest to do a deal with SNP, regardless of how badly the SNP would like the situation to be otherwise.

But this does make the nature of the next government even harder to predict. I think we're looking at an unstable minority government, but at this point it is impossible to make a decent guess as to who will be running it and which parties will be involved. Fascinating stuff.



Miliband's comments torpedo this SNP tactic. After all, it wasn't Labour who let the tories in last time - it was the Liberal Democrats. So the above poster actually only makes sense in Scottish seats held by the LDs. In labour held seats, voting SNP might end up letting the tories in rather than locking them out.

Ed Miliband is not stupid.

[kenneal - lagger]

Perhaps the only winners in this will be the corporate lobbyists. The parties will jointly push through any legislation that they are told to by those lobbyists and any contentious legislation that might suit the actual people of this country will go by the board.

[Snail]

The SNP is no longer considered a protest vote in Scotland.

But still, haven't we learned anything in the last twenty years: there is little-to-no difference in the 3 main parties. Even SNP and UKIP aren't that different. Yet, come election time we talk as if there is.

Looking at Greece and I'm not seeing much change going on; and Syriza was supposed to be the radical left.

I'll vote SNP and others will vote Green. More will vote labour. And so what?

[UndercoverElephant]

The SNP is no longer considered a protest vote in Scotland.

Surely you accept that some of the people who vote for the SNP are doing so not because they are nationalists, but because they are socialists and they want to prod the labour party into moving towards the left, right?

Looking at Greece and I'm not seeing much change going on; and Syriza was supposed to be the radical left.

Yes, but Syriza tied its own hands by committing to staying within the Euro.

[Snail]

Some are. But more voting for them, because the SNP simply is the party now which most closely represents people's views. Or whatever, Labour now seen as not representative.

[UndercoverElephant]

Some are. But more voting for them, because the SNP simply is the party now which most closely represents people's views. Or whatever, Labour now seen as not representative.

Labour have moved to the centre in order to try to get elected. The further they move to the left, the more seats in England they will lose to the tories. If people in Scotland then vote SNP because labour isn't left wing enough, they may well be voting for a party that is sufficiently socialist to represent their views, but it might be at the cost of having to put up with a tory-led government.

[Little John]

UE, if the majority of people in the UK vote for left of centre parties and, when all left of centre parties' votes are summed, find themselves persistently unrepresented because the least left of centre of those parties cuts its nose off to spite its face, that party will, in the longer run, be annihilated which will, in turn, lead to a new left coalition of parties that could well coalesce into a new party. The only reason this has not happened hitherto is because the relative "good times" that this country has experienced in the last few decades, coupled with a decidedly conformist and compliant mainstream media, have all conspired to keep a leftist agenda well away from the dominant public consciousness. However, the cracks in that conspiracy are becoming visible. Votes for the Greens, the SNP, even UKIP, are all part of the unmasking and usurping of the old narrative.

One way or another change is coming and what we are currently witnessing is the messy transition. I understand why Milliband has made the judgement he has vis-a-vis the SNP. But, that judgement is based on a very short time horizon of benefit to him and his party. If he goes through with his apparent commitment to absolutely no dealing whatsoever with the SNP and other like-minded parties, either formally or informally, the Labour party will pay a massive price in the longer run because they will be swimming against a deeper tide of change.

[Tarrel]

To be honest, I can't envisage many Labour policies that both the SNP and Conservatives would be opposed to. Therefore the issue of the SNP voting with the Conservatives shouldn't arise often, if at all. Any Labour policies objected to by the SNP would likely be pro-austerity, which the Conservatives shouldn't have a problem with.

If the SNP (and other like-minded parties) build up a record of supporting Labour in areas where they have common ground, even if they don't agree on the exact detail, then they should be able to build up sufficient negotiating capital to apply pressure behind the scenes on those issue where they are at odds with both Labour and Conservatives (e.g. Trident).

As far as the Queen's Speech is concerned, I don't quite know what is accepted protocol and what isn't, but I would imagine it would be possible for the SNP to say to Labour; "We agree with 90% of what's in your Queen's speech, so we're going to vote with you. However, expect us to be robust when it comes to the actual process of pushing through parliament the red-line issues we don't agree with. (It would be akin to me voting SNP in Holyrood elections but then being prepared to lobby my MSP to rebel on a future piece of SNP legislation that I feel strongly against.)

It'll all settle down after next week when the need to bluff and bluster has passed.

[snow hope]

It'll all settle down after next week when the need to bluff and bluster has passed.

Exactly.

The day after the election, all politicians will have gone to sleep and woken up having forgotten everything they said leading up to the election and will do completely different stuff such as tie-ups and agreements that they had strenuously denied only the previous day....

Surely to goodness we have all seen this happen in the past, or do we also have the same problem that when we go to sleep we forget everything that has happened before we wake up?? D'oh!!

[kenneal - lagger]

LJ, the press is definitely not compliant or conformist. They have their own agenda driven by the desires of their billionaire, tax haven dwelling owners and they support whichever party the owners think will give them what they want. The Grauniad group is perhaps the only independent newspaper but even that is being swayed by the Kleptocracy.

I will say again, after the election the party hierarchy will buckle down to what their corporate lobbyists require and individual MPs will abide by the Whip out of party loyalty or a desire to get onwards and upwards in the party structure so we will get virtually the same from whichever party is in power.

The only stuff which will get voted down is that which is in the manifestos which doesn't conform to the lobbyists requirements. I do not make any apologies or excuses for my cynicism.

Please read Donnachadh McCarthy's book, The Prostitute State, available from www.theprostitutestate.co.uk for £12.

[clv101]

Boris Johnson has been suspiciously quiet these last few weeks.

[Little John]

LJ, the press is definitely not compliant or conformist. They have their own agenda driven by the desires of their billionaire, tax haven dwelling owners and they support whichever party the owners think will give them what they want. The Grauniad group is perhaps the only independent newspaper but even that is being swayed by the Kleptocracy.

I will say again, after the election the party hierarchy will buckle down to what their corporate lobbyists require and individual MPs will abide by the Whip out of party loyalty or a desire to get onwards and upwards in the party structure so we will get virtually the same from whichever party is in power.

The only stuff which will get voted down is that which is in the manifestos which doesn't conform to the lobbyists requirements. I do not make any apologies or excuses for my cynicism.

Please read Donnachadh McCarthy's book, The Prostitute State, available from www.theprostitutestate.co.uk for £12.

By "conformist" and "compliant", I was specifically referring to the MSM's tendency to push an economic elite's agenda and to diminish/deride/ignore any alternatives, be they from the left or the right.

[Catweazle]

.......so we will get virtually the same from whichever party is in power.

I think so too, but because there are no solutions that the public will accept.

Look at the housing crisis for example. All the parties are making noises about young people needing homes, yet none of the parties can actually do anything to reduce prices by easing planning permission / regs. They can't. If house prices crash the banks will fold, savings will not attract any interest, and all the old folk whose care homes are being paid for out of the proceeds of their houses will be destitute.

House prices are the means to keep the young working to pay for the old, if you want the young to stand a chance you have to abandon the old. No party is going to do that.