Doomer experiment

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 31 Jan 2015, 11:54

I read this piece and couldn't help but think of PS. The trials and tribulations of a doomer experiment.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... up-commune

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 03 Feb 2015, 10:50

Very interesting.

I came up with the concept of Post-Apocalyptic (PA) rating. If something had a PA rating of 100% it meant that it could be done, or could exist, in exactly the same way after the crash – baked potatoes, for instance. We would try not to buy anything with a PA rating of less than 100%.

We do this (we hadn't given it a name). It's fairly normal to think along these lines: "Could we do this in a more resource-constrained world?" It can sometimes change what we actually do.

Anyway, Yeo's 'experiment' is not new or impossible. Humans did it for thousands of years, other animals for millions.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 03 Feb 2015, 20:55

Interesting. He certainly picked a good location. The Black Isle has a thriving Transition movement, including a series of local community markets that take place weekly in three of the towns in rotation throughout the year. The climate is relatively benign. (The name "Black Isle" comes from the fact that snow rarely settles there, rendering the peninsula "black" in contrast to the surrounding snowy landscapes in winter.) The soil is excellent. It's just down the road from where we are.

I feel for the guy. Winter can be pretty brutal up here if you need to spend time out of doors. Having said that, being outdoors does give you best exposure to the minimal light at this time of year. It's nice to know you've got somewhere warm, sheltered and comfortable to retreat to though!

We've made hard going of the winter (our third) this year. It's been relentlessly wet and ground conditions in the woodland are awful. To cap it all, the Big Storm of a few weeks back ripped the roof off our cabin (the whole roof, not just the felt). When I saw it I certainly stood and reflected on the capability of the Scottish Highlands to chew you up and spit you out without a second thought!

It's a natural part of the learning curve. Two steps forward, one step back. The light (or lack of it) is a big deal, more so than the weather IMO, but it really only lasts for 6-8 weeks around the winter solstice. The more winters we spend up here, the more you realise that it is a transitory period, grit your teeth and get on with it.

This guy is not alone. There are people all over flirting with this kind of experiment. We met a couple on a crofting course a while ago who had bought some land in Aberdeenshire with an old ruin on it. Their eventual plan was to rebuild the ruin, but meanwhile they were living in a yurt with their two children (under 10). There main aim was self-sufficiency. They had already fallen out with the local community. The course was in late October, and they were about to face their first winter. Not sure if they are still there.

I think one of the biggest mistakes these folk make is they get too "hair-shirted" about things. Why live in a Yurt when you could build a well-insulated, small cabin for little more effort? A rudimentary PV and/or wind set-up would give them all the artificial light they could need, even in winter. No-one should expect to be able to turn up on a piece of neglected land and become self-sufficient in crops the first year. That's what food storing is for.

They set the bar so very high for themselves and guilt kicks in when they have to back-pedal from the ideal. (Calling the place "Utopia" was probably not a good start. Seems like a small thing, but all these little kicks in the nuts add up).

We've made these kind of mistakes and learned from them. As a result, three years in, we have adopted a more laid back approach in which we celebrate and feel good about each step we have taken towards insulating ourselves from energy scarcity and economic turbulence, without worrying about the things we haven't managed to do yet. This means we can apply ourselves to achieving those additional things with a good heart and without feeling driven to do so.

In summary, I don't think you can simulate post-apocalyptic living in an 18 month experiment. One huge hurdle is the fact that the rest of society is carrying on around you. That has various implications, from the busy-body from the Council to the nagging doubt in your mind that you're off on some kind of stupid wild goose chase.

(I also like the "PA" rating. We also kind of do this, on an informal level)

ETA: I really ought to do some more blog posts!

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 04 Feb 2015, 00:25

Tarrel wrote:Interesting. He certainly picked a good location.

Stop right there! A "Good Location" for a survival experiment might be southern Illinois USA or some other well watered temperate climate area with good soil and access to timber etc. Scotland has always been on the margins and never an easy life giving rise to the survivors being people to be reckoned with.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 04 Feb 2015, 02:34

And socialists to the hilt! I wonder if it's a coincidence that most of northern Europe is socialist? Are Canadians more socialist than their USA neighbours?

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 04 Feb 2015, 08:32

kenneal - lagger wrote:And socialists to the hilt! I wonder if it's a coincidence that most of northern Europe is socialist? Are Canadians more socialist than their USA neighbours?

That is a fair statement. They have socialized health care and a lot of government subsidies agricultural and forestry programs.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 04 Feb 2015, 10:14

vtsnowedin wrote:
Tarrel wrote:Interesting. He certainly picked a good location.
Stop right there! A "Good Location" for a survival experiment might be southern Illinois USA or some other well watered temperate climate area with good soil and access to timber etc. Scotland has always been on the margins and never an easy life giving rise to the survivors being people to be reckoned with.

I really meant a good location as far as Scotland is concerned. Someone wanting to make a living off the land in Scotland could do a lot worse than the Black Isle.

On a macro scale however, I would still class Scotland as a reasonable choice. It has a maritime climate, which means it rarely experiences extremes. (Wind is the most extreme form of weather we get). Rainfall is plentiful but rarely damaging. It has a complex, indented coastline, providing sheltered bays, sea-lochs and opportunities for fishing and foraging. There are opportunities for travel by sea and inland waterways. Soil quality in some parts is excellent. It is reasonably well forested (though nothing like as much as the mainland of Europe).

There is plenty of evidence of Scotland, and even northern island groups such as Shetland, being inhabited from the early stone age, and trading with countries in Southern Europe.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 04 Feb 2015, 10:20

Tarrel wrote:we have adopted a more laid back approach in which we celebrate and feel good about each step we have taken towards insulating ourselves from energy scarcity and economic turbulence, without worrying about the things we haven't managed to do yet. This means we can apply ourselves to achieving those additional things with a good heart and without feeling driven to do so.

Agree. While society carries on towards its self-destruction, take advantage of it and use the time available. You'll be ahead of the pack, however near or far away that demise may be.

Climate change is the big worry - violent storms will test everything you build - but as far as energy goes, what energy efficiency measures are feasible are going to be used, stringing out resources that bit longer (somewhat counterbalanced by increased demand). It's not an energy cliff, it's a very rough and bumpy downward roller-coaster.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 04 Feb 2015, 16:36

Tarrel wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Tarrel wrote:Interesting. He certainly picked a good location.
Stop right there! A "Good Location" for a survival experiment might be southern Illinois USA or some other well watered temperate climate area with good soil and access to timber etc. Scotland has always been on the margins and never an easy life giving rise to the survivors being people to be reckoned with.
I really meant a good location as far as Scotland is concerned. .

OK if you want to restrict yourself to Scotland.

Goggle earth 38 deg. 17' North and 88 deg. 38' west and see what I was comparing it to.

Atman · Post by **Atman** » 07 Feb 2015, 22:04

What's so special about 38.17N 88.38W? I'm looking at that location and all I see are trees. Is it an alien base?

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 07 Feb 2015, 22:50

Atman wrote:What's so special about 38.17N 88.38W? I'm looking at that location and all I see are trees. Is it an alien base?

You should be looking at some of the best farmland in the world. The city of Belle Prairie is a bit to the southwest. Water soil, temperate weather, transportation systems in place etc.