The rise of the far right

[snow hope]

Try to be a little less dogmatic and a little more gracious Steve and we will all be happier.

[Little John]

Try to be a little less dogmatic and a little more gracious Steve and we will all be happier.

I'm not here to make you happy. At least not on serious threads like this one. Nor am I here to deliberately and pointlessly antagonise you. I am here to speak the truth as I see it, to listen to the truth spoken by others as they see it, to debate the differences between them, should they exist, and to alter my position (or persuade others to alter theirs) on any number of issues as consequence. That is all.

Now, of course, there are times when I may go "off piste" as it were and participate in frivolous and/or personal threads where a more rigorous intellectual cut and thrust posting style may be set to one side. And, in such threads, my tone of posting style will alter commensurately.

This thread is not one of them.

[emordnilap]

Steve, I haven't read a post of yours yet that wasn't worth reading. Whether I personally liked, disliked, agreed or disagreed any or all of your posts is irrelevant. Carry on.

[Little John]

Thank you E.

[mr brightside]

Or, do you just want me to be "nicer"?

Yes, nicer. I appreciate the forum gets trolled a lot by PO denialists, which probably explains the unusually high levels of apathy at times. PS is a bit cold compared to sports releted boards and i've never noticed anyone having fun on here. Since being introduced to topics relating to TEOTWAWKI on here i can't help but feel positive about the future, knowing i have a reasonable chance of survival and that i'm likely to be dead by the time it gets really bad; if it gets really bad.

[mr brightside]

Anyway, just to get back on track...

Farage is just an old school Tory wanker who wants to have his cake and eat it. That is to say, he is fully wedded to the neo-con big-business agenda. he just doesn't want to accept that the way to keep profits high and pay and conditions down is by importing cheap labour from overseas. Instead, his answer would be to "free" us from what paltry protections are available via the European arrangement and so allow people like him to pay as little they want, impose whatever working conditions they like and basically return us to Victorian conditions for the working class of this country.

I thought one of the cornerstones of Farage's 'manifesto' was to get better control of UK borders, presumably this would stop the flow of cheap labour. As things stand at the moment are we short of cheap labour? I think we have plenty of cheap labour already. I also think the country as a whole is on the cusp of a population crisis; i don't think the solution is to start building on brownfield sites or expand villages onto farmland, but to get the birth rate down. Full control of our own borders could help here, but i'm by no means suggesting Farage is fully wedded to this idea...in reality i don't know for sure.

[Little John]

Anyway, just to get back on track...

Farage is just an old school Tory wanker who wants to have his cake and eat it. That is to say, he is fully wedded to the neo-con big-business agenda. he just doesn't want to accept that the way to keep profits high and pay and conditions down is by importing cheap labour from overseas. Instead, his answer would be to "free" us from what paltry protections are available via the European arrangement and so allow people like him to pay as little they want, impose whatever working conditions they like and basically return us to Victorian conditions for the working class of this country.

I thought one of the cornerstones of Farage's 'manifesto' was to get better control of UK borders, presumably this would stop the flow of cheap labour. As things stand at the moment are we short of cheap labour? I think we have plenty of cheap labour already. I also think the country as a whole is on the cusp of a population crisis; i don't think the solution is to start building on brownfield sites or expand villages onto farmland, but to get the birth rate down. Full control of our own borders could help here, but i'm by no means suggesting Farage is fully wedded to this idea...in reality i don't know for sure.

Forage is explicitly in tune with the entire neo-con world view of unfettered global commerce, low to minimal tax and low to minimal state, where economic actors are pretty much free to do as they please. He just has a thing about border controls, however, because he is also part of an older conservative tradition. From where I am standing that looks like an almighty contradiction in his view of the world. A contradiction I see in many neo-con right wingers I have spoken to.

An integral part of the neo con agenda is to play one population off against another, to import chap labour from aboard etc. All of this is to serve one unitary goal, however, and that is to maintain profits at all costs. As time are getting tougher, it's becoming no longer feasible or politically safe to keep shoe horning ever more people into countries where the indigenous population are now starting to suffer. So, our economic elites no doubt be content to work with someone like Farage since his anti immigration message fits in with the zeitgeist (albeit for largely different reasons). His central political ideology, though, is fully neo-con. The only way, then, that pay and conditions can be held down in the absence of mass immigration is to basically strip out all safeguards that were hard won over the last century.

That's what Farage is about.

The bottom line is this, You get to vote for whichever neo-con you wish. But, it will be a neo-con.

[emordnilap]

The only way, then, that pay and conditions can be held down in the absence of mass immigration is to basically strip out all safeguards that were hard won over the last century.

This is precisely what's happening, slowly enough for people to get used to it.

[mr brightside]

The only way, then, that pay and conditions can be held down in the absence of mass immigration is to basically strip out all safeguards that were hard won over the last century.

This is precisely what's happening, slowly enough for people to get used to it.

What sort of safeguards might be at risk? Are you talking about things like sick pay, holiday pay and the minimum wage?

[Little John]

The only way, then, that pay and conditions can be held down in the absence of mass immigration is to basically strip out all safeguards that were hard won over the last century.

This is precisely what's happening, slowly enough for people to get used to it.

What sort of safeguards might be at risk? Are you talking about things like sick pay, holiday pay and the minimum wage?

a medical system owned by the people for the people and free at the point of need and paid for out of progressive general taxation

An educational system owned by the people for the people free at the point of need and paid for out of progressive general taxation

A social care system owned by the people for the people free at the pount of need and paid for out of progressive general taxation

Protections for people with regards to their living conditions in the form of rent controls and/or a mass housebuilding program. The absence of which is leading to, inevitably, multi-generational overcrowded homes.

for starters........................

[3rdRock]

Steve, I haven't read a post of yours yet that wasn't worth reading.

I'm forced to agree but I just wish that Steve would be a little less condescending to the rest of us mere mortals.

[kenneal - lagger]

.....
I'm forced to agree but I just wish that Steve would be a little less condescending to the rest of us mere mortals.

That's socialist intellectuals for you!!

[RenewableCandy]

He's not condescending, he's a blunt-speaking Yorkshireman.

Carry on, Steve.

[Catweazle]

He's not condescending, he's a blunt-speaking Yorkshireman.

Carry on, Steve.

On the subject of blunt speaking, what would be the election outcome if the leader of any party came clean and said "We're skint, if we don't import enough talented people now there will soon be no money to pay your pension or care bills" ?

They'd get my vote.

[biffvernon]

A vote for Natalie Bennett then.