Ebola outbreak, and other potential epidemics

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 08 Oct 2014, 15:26

Don't worry about the UK, we have 2 suitable containment beds [in London]. We also have 40 flights a week from W africa and no gov intention to screen arrivals.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 08 Oct 2014, 15:49

Well, you've got to laugh, haven't you?

It appears the world is indeed full of numbskulls. The level of stupidity described in the previous few posts isn't quite up there with murdering teams of health professionals or "liberating" ebola patients from quarantine, but it's not far off.

So far we've had two "unexpected" appearances of ebola in western countries, and in both cases the response has been completely incompetent.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 Oct 2014, 15:59

This was bound to happen.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 81366.html

I guess the kid was adopted by a white family whilst in Sierra Leone, and
has joint nationality.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 Oct 2014, 16:01

http://www.channel4.com/news/ebola-dog- ... ition-save

300,000 people care about a dog enough to sign an online petition.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 08 Oct 2014, 16:23

PS_RalphW wrote:http://www.channel4.com/news/ebola-dog- ... ition-save

300,000 people care about a dog enough to sign an online petition.

No offense to dog lovers ( I have had 3 dogs during my life) but this just shows how people are unable to see the wood for the trees to a ridiculous extent.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 Oct 2014, 16:27

Dallas victim has died.

Brent oil price below $91.

Life never follows a linear pattern but on current trend we will see global economic meltdown within 6 months.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 08 Oct 2014, 16:54

PS_RalphW wrote:Dallas victim has died.

Brent oil price below $91.

Life never follows a linear pattern but on current trend we will see global economic meltdown within 6 months.

I know the Dallas guy was on experimental drugs which could have made it worse, but this outcome says everything. The medics would have thrown everything at this guy [eg dialysis machines for fluid imbalances etc]. He would have been on interferon and globbulin IV and everything from 'Agents of Shield' just to show that it is not a mass panic event. If they can't guarantee one patient with military antivirus resources, then it really is the toughest bug about. I am 1/2way through Dr CJ Peters biography - it gives a lot of insight. I recommend it highly.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 Oct 2014, 16:59

Online petition to save the dog has reached 350,000. Mob clashes with police outside the Nurse's apartment where the dog has been left untended with 3 weeks supply of food.

Dogs can catch ebola and show no symptoms. It is unclear if they can infect or be infected directly by humans. Normal infection is by eating infected meat. It would be good science to isolate the dog, test for ebola infection, and then keep for further research or release for adoption. However, in the grand scheme of things - it's a dog.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 08 Oct 2014, 17:26

We should have stopped flights from areas where ebola is rife months ago, western medicine wont be able to deal with a large outbreak you can see that in the nurse who has ebola in spain . You would think spain is a 1st world country it should at least have the ability to treat one person, you would think they would put that person in ebola in the best place they have in the entire country .

How many people would you be able to treat in hospital in the uk. Really the world should have stopped flights to west africa ages ago if you get it in somewhere like india or mexico or it just spreads to all the run down shanty towns around the world you will have millions of people trying to get into the west for treatment .

if ebola is only transmitted via direct contact

The nurse was wearing medical isolation gear, and she knew she was treating an Ebola patient.

• She had access to all the advantages of "modern health care facilities."

• She was fully versed in infectious disease safety protocols and practices.

And yet, despite all these advantages, this nurse still got infected by a virus that we are told can only be transmitted via "direct contact."

From what I've read I think ebola is more infectious than people think its more likely to be airborne, vaccines wont stop it our medical system wont stop it. Stopping travel having quarantine like you do with dogs if you have some travel,and shooting people trying to break through quarantine might have worked .

I dont think any of this will happen you have a long period where people have the sickness may be infectious but dont show signs, the one place I wont be going is to a hospital or seeing a doctor because doctors and nurses are likely to be the first people to die .

steve look at what happened in europe during and after the black death to a degree anarchy and they had a strong community structure pre plague .

People deserting family doctors deserting patients , mad cults springing up, people trying to infect people on purpose, scapegoats being targeted, people fleeing citys people setting up their own quarantines .

I think the americans have a better idea of what would happen during a massive pandemic than we do, I guess we would act worse than people did during the black death

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 08 Oct 2014, 17:38

PS_RalphW wrote:http://www.channel4.com/news/ebola-dog- ... ition-save

300,000 people care about a dog enough to sign an online petition.

I signed it.

We don't even know if dogs can catch ebola, and this particular dog has been left home alone with 15kg of food and a bath full of water. Why kill it? How can it infect anyone? And if, it turns out, dogs do catch ebola, presumably it will die and then we'll actually know whether dogs can catch ebola.

Or do you think we should kill all dogs of infected people, even if dogs can't catch ebola (as far as we know)?

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 08 Oct 2014, 17:44

PS_RalphW wrote: Dogs can catch ebola and show no symptoms. It is unclear if they can infect or be infected directly by humans. Normal infection is by eating infected meat. It would be good science to isolate the dog, test for ebola infection, and then keep for further research or release for adoption. However, in the grand scheme of things - it's a dog.

You just contradicted yourself. Yes, the best thing to do would be to isolate the dog (which has been isolated...) and wait to see whether it actually gets ebola. Killing it just means there is one less dog in the world, and we're no better informed.

This is actually quite an important question. If dogs really can catch ebola from and pass it back to humans then it's highly likely that there are hundreds of infected dogs wandering around west Africa - and nobody is doing anything about it!!! Killing all pets of infected persons is not the answer. If it is a real risk then we need to find out that it is a real risk and do something about it. And if it isn't a real risk then this is the senseless killing of an animal - or rather it is entirely for show, which is worse than senseless.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 Oct 2014, 19:33

I am not contradicting myself. The dog could be useful to science, but there is small chance that it is harbouring a deadly disease. If it doesn't then we learn nothing, but if it is, then it will need a lot of expensive handling and will need to be put down eventually anyway. Scientifically, it will be nearly as useful dead as alive. Given that the nurse had just got infected following an unsuccessful attempt to save two other Ebola victims, I can understand that the relevant authorities don't want to take unnecessary chances.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 08 Oct 2014, 19:38

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/o ... a-agencies

NGO's and the whole paternalistic charity business will end up killing us all .

British airways stop flights and save the children say keep the flights going. if we had any sense we would stop people flying from these regions and let it burn itself out .

No we have to save their children and murder our own

.

I would take note of whats happening and get ready for it really to hit the uk

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 08 Oct 2014, 19:50

why are you concerned about the fate of a dog, if this thing breaks out there will be lots of dead dogs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ctims.html

That shows you how the spanish priest who died of ebola that gave the illness to the spanish nurse was treated, hes in a plastic tube and everyones wearing biohazard suits .

If he had not contracted deadly paternalism, he wouldnt have been in west africa he wouldnt be dead and he wouldnt have given it to the spanish nurse and illness wouldnt be killing people in spain.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Oct 2014, 00:02

jonny2mad wrote: why are you concerned about the fate of a dog, if this thing breaks out there will be lots of dead dogs

Will there? There might be dead dogs because their owners have died and nobody is there to feed them anymore, but whether there will be lots of dogs dead from ebola is another question - one that needs a proper answer.

I'm opposed to killing this dog for two reasons, as already explained. I think it is partly being done for show - very visibly slamming the stable door shut after the real horse has bolted. Nobody actually knows whether dogs can catch ebola from humans, or if they can infect humans. If this sort of transmission is indeed possible then it is important that we actually know for sure. If transmission is not possible then we're going to end up killing thousands of dogs (and cats? rabbits? sheep? pot-bellied pigs?) for no reason, which causes suffering to the owners and is a waste of money/time/resources. And if it is possible then we're going to have to make sure that all pets in this situation are killed. Either way, killing the dog for show, in the absence of any evidence either way, is not justified. It should be isolated, and monitored, and then we'll have an answer to the question.

I very strongly suspect that dogs cannot catch ebola from humans - at least not easily. Why? Because if they could, then there would be lots of dead dogs in West Africa, and somebody would have noticed this by now.

Put it this way: if we could establish that no dogs have died from ebola in West Africa, would you still advocate this dog be killed?