By jumping into bed with the EU and seeking a currency union with the UK?stevecook172001 wrote:Good on the Jocks. They are setting an example to the rest of us of how to say **** OFF to the global elites.
Scotland Watch
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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Standuble
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Little John
You are conflating independence with the SNP and it's policies. Hardly surprising, of course, since your MSM has done a pretty relentless job of encouraging you to do just that. They are not the same thing, however. Assuming Scotland gets independence, what happens after that will be determined in subsequent general elections by the Scottish people. If their history is anything to go by, their direction of travel with be leftwards and egalitarian.Standuble wrote:By jumping into bed with the EU and seeking a currency union with the UK?stevecook172001 wrote:Good on the Jocks. They are setting an example to the rest of us of how to say **** OFF to the global elites.
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peaceful_life
- Posts: 544
- Joined: 21 Sep 2010, 16:20
That will be decided after the referendum, there's an election in 2016 and folk want a say on things.Standuble wrote:By jumping into bed with the EU and seeking a currency union with the UK?stevecook172001 wrote:Good on the Jocks. They are setting an example to the rest of us of how to say **** OFF to the global elites.
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http://www.efta.int/ Is but one option amongst many.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota There are many examples and models.
Last edited by peaceful_life on 18 Sep 2014, 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
Food for thought:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-public-b ... nd/5402542
http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-public-b ... nd/5402542
It would involve leaving the EU and starting a Scottish Currency. This would be contrary to the white paper, but is an example of the options open to an independent country, provided a government was elected with this in their manifesto.A Public Bank Option for Scotland
Arguments against independence include that Scotland’s levels of public spending, which are higher than in the rest of the UK, would be difficult to sustain without raising taxes. But that assumes the existing UK/EU investment regime. If Scotland were to say, “We’re starting a new round based on our own assets, via our own new bank,” exciting things might be achieved. A publicly-owned bank with a mandate to serve the interests of the Scottish people could help give the newly independent country true economic sovereignty.
I wrote on that possibility in December 2012, after doing a PowerPoint on it at the Royal Society of Arts in Edinburgh. That presentation was followed by one by public sector consultant Ralph Leishman, who made the proposal concrete with facts and figures. He suggested that the Scottish Investment Bank (SIB) be licensed as a depository bank on the model of the state-owned Bank of North Dakota. I’m reposting the bulk of that article here, in hopes of adding to the current debate
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.
If there's a "yes" vote today, I think it will be quite likely that the SNP will be voted out of office in 2016, and replaced with a coalition, which is the more normal state of affairs with a PR system.
It's interesting how governments / leaders that preside over times of great change or trauma are often subsequently voted out, even if they have navigated that period successfully. Happened to Churchill after WW2. I suppose people realise that certain people / parties are good at certain things. When the need changes, so do people's preferences.
At the moment there is no strong political force in Scotland that is anti-EU. However, doesn't mean one couldn't arise, or one of the major parties change policy, if the EU starts playing hardball with the prospective Scottish membership question.
One thing I'd be pretty sure of; if the SNP campaigned at the 2016 elections on a manifesto radically different to the independence white paper, they'd be torn to shreds, given that the opinion polls are suggesting close to 50% of the electorate don't want an independent Scotland anyway.
(Other measures of public opinion, i.e. the actual referendum, are available)
It's interesting how governments / leaders that preside over times of great change or trauma are often subsequently voted out, even if they have navigated that period successfully. Happened to Churchill after WW2. I suppose people realise that certain people / parties are good at certain things. When the need changes, so do people's preferences.
At the moment there is no strong political force in Scotland that is anti-EU. However, doesn't mean one couldn't arise, or one of the major parties change policy, if the EU starts playing hardball with the prospective Scottish membership question.
One thing I'd be pretty sure of; if the SNP campaigned at the 2016 elections on a manifesto radically different to the independence white paper, they'd be torn to shreds, given that the opinion polls are suggesting close to 50% of the electorate don't want an independent Scotland anyway.
(Other measures of public opinion, i.e. the actual referendum, are available)
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.
With most of the recent polls giving the Nos a lead of about 4-6% the result of this election will be decided by the undecided voter, and any selection bias in the opinion polls.
The latter is probably the bigger factor, given the first time 16-17 y/o s have been given a vote, and the lack of precedent for this kind of vote.
Polsters are used to being given inaccurate information in polls, some people don't want to admit to anyone that they intend to vote for *****, but I don't think this election is like that.
Even allowing for all that, everything to me says the Nos have it by 4-6%.
The latter is probably the bigger factor, given the first time 16-17 y/o s have been given a vote, and the lack of precedent for this kind of vote.
Polsters are used to being given inaccurate information in polls, some people don't want to admit to anyone that they intend to vote for *****, but I don't think this election is like that.
Even allowing for all that, everything to me says the Nos have it by 4-6%.
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peaceful_life
- Posts: 544
- Joined: 21 Sep 2010, 16:20
Worth a chuckle.....PS_RalphW wrote:With most of the recent polls giving the Nos a lead of about 4-6% the result of this election will be decided by the undecided voter, and any selection bias in the opinion polls.
The latter is probably the bigger factor, given the first time 16-17 y/o s have been given a vote, and the lack of precedent for this kind of vote.
Polsters are used to being given inaccurate information in polls, some people don't want to admit to anyone that they intend to vote for *****, but I don't think this election is like that.
Even allowing for all that, everything to me says the Nos have it by 4-6%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Rr1vFUJgA
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Little John
If you look at all of the UK general elections since the fifties Scotland has consistently voted Labour, prior to the rise of the SNP. However, for only half of that time has Scotland actually had a Labour government.snow hope wrote:I hope you are right Ralph. I believe that 'together we stand, divided we fall' applies to this situation. We will know very soon.
Furthermore, if you remove Scotland’s contribution to the UK national vote for every election since the fifties, the results of those elections would have been unchanged.
Therefore, Scotland has everything to gain, electorally, by Scottish independence and the rest of the UK has nothing to lose, electorally, by Scottish independence. In terms of the political awakening of the people, they both have everything to gain.
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peaceful_life
- Posts: 544
- Joined: 21 Sep 2010, 16:20
Noted in this lads song..stevecook172001 wrote:If you look at all of the UK general elections since the fifties Scotland has consistently voted Labour, prior to the rise of the SNP. However, for only half of that time has Scotland actually had a Labour government.snow hope wrote:I hope you are right Ralph. I believe that 'together we stand, divided we fall' applies to this situation. We will know very soon.
Furthermore, if you remove Scotland’s contribution to the UK national vote for every election since the fifties, the results of those elections would have been unchanged.
Therefore, Scotland has everything to gain, electorally, by Scottish independence and the rest of the UK has nothing to lose, electorally, by Scottish independence. In terms of the political awakening of the people, they both have everything to gain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP7xG_bHOIs
Hope Over Fear
Are you threatened by words from an empire of money and gold?
Will you trade in your countries potential for the lies you've been sold?
Are you scared that the walls are too high to be breached by the bold?
Will you stand and be counted, or shut up and do what yer told?
Hope over fear - Don't be afraid
Tell Westminster Tories that Scotland's no longer yer slave
Carpe Diem - will you seize the day?
Rip the chains from the unicorn - Show them that Scotland is brave.
Did the TV man call you a nationalist, for rejecting the lies?
Are the words of a few worth a bob, cos they wear shirts n ties?
When they tell ye that Scotland's not great - are ye really surprised?
Will ye stand and be counted for something that money can't buy?
Hope over fear - Don't be afraid
Tell Westminster Tories that Scotland's no longer yer slave
Carpe Diem - will you seize the day?
Rip the chains from the Unicorn - Show them that Scotland is brave
Are you happy that nuclear weapons are dumped in the Clyde?
Fighting wars for the wealth of a few, how many have died?
You can bury my bones but the truth of it can't be denied.
Will you stand and be counted cos I'll be there stood by your side.
Hope over fear - Don't be afraid
Tell Westminster Tories that Scotland's no longer yer slave
Carpe Diem - will you seize the day?
Rip the chains from the Unicorn - Show them that Scotland is brave
Well the media tell you that England don't want you to go,
And the taxpayer funded MPs tell you "just tell em No"
But in Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield they already know.
That we're fighting for them, and it's only the start of the show.
Hope over fear - Don't be afraid
Tell Westminster Tories that Scotland's no longer yer slave
Carpe Diem - will you seize the day?
Rip the chains from the Unicorn - Show them that Scotland is brave
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Little John
I don't think the vote/referendum makes any difference. If the "no's" win, the "Scotland for the Scot's" and "Keep Scotland beautiful, throw your rubbish in England" bumper sticker/graffiti brigade will simply RIOT thier way to independance anyway.stevecook172001 wrote:Well, that fellah just made a full grown Englishman cry.
It doesn't even matter if the No's win by a whisker today. The Scottish revolt won't go away now.
I hope to God they don't win though....
See what happens tomorrow when Wester Hailles thinks it will be a fun and enjoyable Friday visiting the English/non-Scots establishments in Musselburgh/Edinburgh......... Whether in jubilation of a win, or anger due to a lose........the result is usually the same.
Last edited by odaeio on 18 Sep 2014, 18:37, edited 1 time in total.
The Universe does Balance and Equilibrium - neither excess nor deficit
Perhaps humanity would have been wise to follow it's example
Perhaps humanity would have been wise to follow it's example
Three young women with Catalan flags at the traffic lights opposite the George IV Bridge polling station in Edinburgh this morning. Crowds milling about. Someone shouted "Viva Catalunya!" They replied "¡Viva!" [because they're allowed to use upside-down exclamation marks]
And apparently four Catalan firemen have driven all the way to Glasgow in a brightly-painted car for the last day of the referendum. Salvador Dali, eat your heart out.
Meanwhile…
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/foo ... d.25357920
["Bank run in the morning, you'll have a bank run in the morning..."]
We're causing too much trouble. That and insidious historical defeatism and paranoia make me predict (if anything) that the result will show a narrow "No". But if there is a next time, then watch out.
And apparently four Catalan firemen have driven all the way to Glasgow in a brightly-painted car for the last day of the referendum. Salvador Dali, eat your heart out.
Meanwhile…
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/foo ... d.25357920
["Bank run in the morning, you'll have a bank run in the morning..."]
We're causing too much trouble. That and insidious historical defeatism and paranoia make me predict (if anything) that the result will show a narrow "No". But if there is a next time, then watch out.
Give me a place to stand on and I will move the Earth.