SHOULD ISIS BE STOPED?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 08 Sep 2014, 12:49

True enough. But, ISIS initially came swarming out of Syria, 20,000 strong, armed to the teeth and having a leadership clearly in receipt of modern theatre of war training.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 08 Sep 2014, 14:01

You just have to be supported by Saudi Arabia, Quatar, Israel and USA and have had a training at Sandhurst.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 09 Sep 2014, 14:57

I think isis is interesting mainly because of the training its giving the jihadi's bent of the conquest of Europe.

You have some British city's with a quarter of the population Muslim

Even if you stop ISIS abroad will you be able stop jihad here in the uk, looking at the figures you have far more British Muslims willing to travel abroad to fight jihad, than you had say brits willing to fight in the Spanish civil war against fascism.

You have more British Muslims fighting as jihadis that are beheading "fellow" westerners than serve in all the uk armed forces, you have a solid fifth column both of traitors youve imported the jihadis, and native traitors .

Anyway

Add to that the hammer of peak oil and you are in for interesting times .

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/ ... of-the-uk/

40% of british muslims want sheria in the uk, about a 3rd want sheria like saudi here and dream of transforming the uk into a islamic state .

Why should I worry about syria when the problem will be in europe

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 13 Sep 2014, 16:30

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09 ... ostpopular

I think the tem is right hand possession basically you capture a women and you can enslave her or sell her if shes non muslim

Ive had conversations with british muslim women who support this sort of thing because it is part of their religion, and much the same thing is part of the old testament is part of the bible .

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Sep 2014, 02:30

UK hostage executed by ISIS.

http://rt.com/news/187636-islamic-state-uk-hostage/

Funny how that happens just when the UK and Germany are wobbling on supporting the USA in bombing raids on Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/germany-g-7-minis ... 19078.html

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 14 Sep 2014, 03:22

stevecook172001 wrote:UK hostage executed by ISIS.

http://rt.com/news/187636-islamic-state-uk-hostage/

Funny how that happens just when the UK and Germany are wobbling on supporting the USA in bombing raids on Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/germany-g-7-minis ... 19078.html

There is nothing funny about it and your suggestion that my or your government would orchestrate such monstrosity is delusional.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 14 Sep 2014, 05:28

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20474120

http://rt.com/uk/186644-rotherham-child-abuse-police/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... d-eye.html

Thats why the uk is doomed council in rotherham takes three kids off foster parents because they vote for ukip, but do nothing to stop 1400 kids being sexually abused by asian pedophile gangs .

Pouring petrol over young girls to scare them so they can be handed around groups of men and trafficed, and these bastards in the council and police do nothing apart from make threats against the whistle blowers, and now take kids off people who are not abusing them .

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Sep 2014, 09:55

vtsnowedin wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:UK hostage executed by ISIS.

http://rt.com/news/187636-islamic-state-uk-hostage/

Funny how that happens just when the UK and Germany are wobbling on supporting the USA in bombing raids on Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/germany-g-7-minis ... 19078.html
There is nothing funny about it and your suggestion that my or your government would orchestrate such monstrosity is delusional.

It may or may not be incorrect to suspect US special ops involvement, either directly or indirectly in this instance, But, it is certainly not delusional.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 68821.html

The US military's secret military

Somewhere on this planet a US commando is carrying out a mission. Now, say that 70 times and you're done ... for the day. Without the knowledge of much of the general American public, a secret force within the US military is undertaking operations in a majority of the world's countries. This Pentagon power elite is waging a global war whose size and scope has generally been ignored by the mainstream media, and deserves further attention.

After a US Navy SEAL put a bullet in Osama bin Laden's chest and another in his head, one of the most secretive black-ops units in the US military suddenly found its mission in the public spotlight. It was atypical. While it's well known that US Special Operations forces are deployed in the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq, and it's increasingly apparent that such units operate in murkier conflict zones like Yemen and Somalia, the full extent of their worldwide war has often remained out of the public scrutiny....

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 14 Sep 2014, 10:26

stevecook172001 wrote:It may or may not be incorrect to suspect US special ops involvement, either directly or indirectly in this instance, But, it is certainly not delusional.

Things we used to believe were "unthinkable", aren't. A government who will blow up a whole family because they believe the home contains one terrorist will not think twice about the death of one aid worker.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Sep 2014, 10:37

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 14 Sep 2014, 11:38

Catweazle wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:It may or may not be incorrect to suspect US special ops involvement, either directly or indirectly in this instance, But, it is certainly not delusional.
Things we used to believe were "unthinkable", aren't. A government who will blow up a whole family because they believe the home contains one terrorist will not think twice about the death of one aid worker.

It used to be unthinkable that a terrorist would fly a jet plane full of women and children through an office building or that other radicals would then support his family for life.

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 10 Oct 2014, 20:14

Mr. Fox wrote:Perhaps you should take the time to get to know the bedrock upon which they build their foundations, try to understand their underlying stratagy.

We can't just sit and whinze about them, else we've 'adit.

I'm going to stop, now, before I'm ladderway in chains, but I hope you get my drift.

Is this your homework for the NATO summit, BTW?

Disaster is a Meer heartbeat away if they put boots on the ground. They may say we've adit if we don't, but you've got to keep a Level head if you want to whim in the long run.

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 10 Oct 2014, 20:33

I reckon that the clerics can't keep on bullshitting people forever, and that one day the Scientific age will catch up with them and that Islam will be forced to embrace it like the Christian church has. I heard it reported that IS are following some tenuous script passage that promises a land of plenty and one big Muslim state or something; probably with rivers of milk and honey propping the deal up somewhere. It's just f**k-witted and Medieval, and it won't last.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 10 Oct 2014, 21:06

mr brightside wrote:I reckon that the clerics can't keep on bullshitting people forever, and that one day the Scientific age will catch up with them and that Islam will be forced to embrace it like the Christian church has.

I don't agree.

Islam never had the same sort of head-on dispute with scientific orthodoxy that Christianity - or rather European Catholicism - did.

First thing to note: the Bible (Old Testament) contain a creation myth and a cosmology, and the Koran does not.

The scientific revolution happened in Christendom, not the muslim world. That meant that it was (Catholic) Christianity that was threatened, rather than Islam. The Catholic church, at that time, was also in a position of great political, financial and military strength, but this strength was not written into the scriptures. Islam is a political as well as a religious system, meaning that strict adherence to the scriptures results in real-world power being delivered to the religious authorities. We see this to this day everywhere Islam is stronger than any other religion. But the Catholic church ended up with all that extra-religious power through a quirk of historical fate, and thus when science started challenging its own religious doctrines - most of which were decided upon by the Catholic church itself rather than coming directly from the Bible - it (rightly) saw science as a direct threat to its political (and therefore financial and military) power. In short, if science could over-ride the absolute will/power of the Catholic authorities, then that power was compromised for good - for them it was the thin edge of a very threatening wedge. And the rest is history - the behaviour of the Catholic church in trying to retain absolute power ultimately resulted in both the Scientific and Protestant revolutions successfully challenging the authority of the Catholic church. And today the Catholic church holds power over the world's catholics but nobody else.

The modern-day Islamic clerics, on the other hand, have no such fear of science. They may disagree with it - there are some Islamic creationists, for example - but on the whole they are free to simply ignore it, because their political power is guaranteed in the very words of the Koran. So, IMO, it is not "the scientific age" that needs to, or can, catch up with them. Something obviously needs to catch up with them - reform is desperately needed in Islam - but I do not agree that science can do the job. It would have happened already if that was going to happen. What is required is something more like the Protestant revolution - a revolution within Islam where ordinary muslims stand up to the clergy and say that it is time for their power to be diminished, just as the Protestants declared that the priests were not required to stand between God and ordinary people. The problem is that this requires an explicit acceptance that the words of the Koran are open to interpretation, and not to be taken literally. Science can't force this change, not least because the Koran does not contain much in the way of claims that contradict science. So it has to be a socio-political change. Unfortunately, I see no evidence to suggest this is happening. Instead of trying to force reform of Islam, the mainstream "moderate" muslims are locked into a cycle of denial: the simply come out with claims like "Islam is a peaceful religion" or "ISIS have nothing to do with the real Islam". And even more unfortunately, politically-correct westerners and cowardly political leaders go along with the lies. If Islam is going to be reformed then the first step in this process is to admit, openly and bluntly, that it is in need of reform. Claiming that it needs no reform is counter-productive denialism, but that is all we're getting from the very people who we need to drive that reform.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 10 Oct 2014, 21:32

The irony is of course that the European scientific revolution was built on the science of Islamic scholars from a thousand years ago. Early Islam celebrated the study of nature. It is only the last 50 or 60 years that the strongly anti scientific fundamentalism has returned. Turkey still has strong scientific tradition, I count two among my friends. Their faith in Islam is absolute. Iranian scientists ditto. One of the most advanced cultures on the planet, which is probably why the us hates it so much.