Id cards In the Uk

cronicneurotic · Post by **cronicneurotic** » 09 Aug 2005, 12:52

I dont know if your aware of the dangers of giving away our identities in the form of cards.. all out personal details readily available to store keepers, police officers what happened to our privacy? , and whoever else can steal/hack our card.. What extra details are going to be stored on there aswel?l.......

To be honest i have never been arrested and have no criminal record no finger prints etc and im very happy about that but with the introduction of the id card it won't matter everyone will be presumed guilty before innocent.Besides the government making a nice little wad at the same time. It does seem a little Harsh but the id cards are pretty similiar to what is being introduced in America for "Security" and Nazi Germany for "Security"(thats how they got all the jews etc by name) and they try the same here but everyone knows that they wont make a difference in finding terrorist recruiters or recruitees who will live here and have id cards any way

The thing is that i believe that no matter what happens in the Commons or the Lords there will be a bill rushed through simillar to the Fox hunting ban and id cards will just come into effect but if we actually get a list of real people a mass of the population a really substabtial mass then its a start this should be passed around everywhere instead of that shite.... Send to 5 friends and have succesful relationships or Your msn account is closing f***ing Bullshit why not start a proper Chain Letter about something that effects our lives and matters and could actually do with the help of alot of internet users

It will only take a few seconds or so just click the link and sign the pledge this isn't an advert by the way i had this sent to me by my girlfriend and im strongly against id cards and believe that the pledge site was taking too much of a nice attitude and not being persuasive enough if you do this just once it will realy help thanks

Very Sincerly
Chris Adamson
Uk Residents Only Please

http://www.pledgebank.com/resist

This pledge closes on 31st March 2006, so be sure to sign it before
then!

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 10 Aug 2005, 15:33

I think that the ID cards are part of the new police state which is being implemented to coincide with peak oil.

As the country's economic and social woes worsen, the government will be blamed, and groups will arise calling for revolution. The new police powers (being brought in under the guise of anti-terrorist legislation) will serve to prevent violent revolution in the UK.

The Civil Contingencies Act 2005 already gives the government power to restrict people's movements out of crisis areas (to control stampedes and rioting), requisition property including transport and energy infrastructure, and imprison people indefinitely in the event of an energy, food, water etc crisis, or anything else that threatens the integrity of society in the UK.

ID cards are part of the control mechanism, I doubt that anyone will be able to stop them coming in. The best defence against being affected by ID cards is not to give the authorities cause to be interested in you.

They won't really change much for the average UK citizen. If you live your whole life under the assumption that you are being observed, you can't really go far wrong. It's actually quite a good rule to abide by in life, in any case.

peaky · Post by **peaky** » 10 Aug 2005, 21:53

I sometimes wonder that with the rapidly approaching Peak, the flawed technology bits that have been used so far, the inevitable massive cost overruns and the usual fine pedigree of public sector IT cockups if it will ever even get further than taxiing along the runway.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 11 Aug 2005, 00:10

I actually think ID Cards will be good for PO. It will allow society (Govt.) to implement solutions that will allow a carbon credit per person (ID Card) and will be a means of sharing some resources on a fair basis.

I just don't have a problem with ID cards - I have nothing to hide...... I just don't GET the idea that we will lose our privacy. I love my privacy - I am fortunate to live in a house which has complete privacy - 8ft hedges all round - I could sunbathe nakd in my back garden if I wanted. But I still don't have a problem with ID Cards..... if it means in a few years time that we can all get our fair share of petrol or coal or even food or whatever then hooray for ID Cards!

peaky · Post by **peaky** » 11 Aug 2005, 00:44

snow hope wrote:if it means in a few years time that we can all get our fair share of petrol or coal or even food or whatever then hooray for ID Cards!

There are other ways of doing it without having ID cards. They didn't need them for food rationing in WW2. Before getting too excited over ID cards take a good look around here www.no2id.net

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 06 Sep 2005, 07:33

something on the BBC about ID cards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4213848.stm

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 18 Jan 2006, 02:46

Green Party Newsreel wrote:Green Party calls for an independent audit of the ID card scheme to cut through the current "chaos and confusion" as peers rebuff bill

Rajeev Thacker, Green Party Home Affairs Spokesperson, comments: "We continue to be fiercely opposed to the government's ID card scheme as an unnecessary, intrusive and costly project.

Would it not be sensible to suggest that ID cards be used to implement CO2 (and later Fuel/Food) rationing?

Although they were not needed post-war, we don't exactly live in the same society as we had back then (i.e. rations were better than nothing, whereas tomorrow rations will be less than everything, and Identity Theft is a serious crime epidemic today).

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 18 Jan 2006, 10:04

cronicneurotic wrote:I dont know if your aware of the dangers of giving away our identities in the form of cards..

I dont think it will never happen. The country will shortly be up economic s**t creek without a paddle. Gordon (or whoever) will prudently axe the scheme in order to save x billions of pounds that it would have cost.

Personally I regard the whole idea as an emormous waste of money that would not make us more secure against terrorism. If anything the reverse as it would tend to make the police lazy in investigating people. They would tend to rely on the ID card data as the font of all wisdom. Identities can be created or stolen.

fishertrop · Post by **fishertrop** » 22 Jan 2006, 22:16

No identity card? You could be fined ?2,500
By Melissa Kite
(Filed: 08/01/2006)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... /nid08.xml

Town hall bureaucrats are to be given sweeping new powers to investigate homes for identity card evasion and to impose heavy fines on occupants found without one.

The revelation, in an obscure Whitehall consultation paper, calls into serious doubt the Government's repeated promises that planned ID cards, already hugely controversial, will be voluntary and that no one will be forced to carry one.

lukasz · Post by **lukasz** » 22 Jan 2006, 22:39

peaky wrote:
snow hope wrote:if it means in a few years time that we can all get our fair share of petrol or coal or even food or whatever then hooray for ID Cards!
There are other ways of doing it without having ID cards. They didn't need them for food rationing in WW2. Before getting too excited over ID cards take a good look around here www.no2id.net

Coming from the place were everybody has an ID card I must say I don't understand
the paranoia. But this is probably just fear of something new. Like the 24h drinking
was suppose to stop the Big Ben, and raevens were suppose to leave the Tower,
nothing happend after all. With ID it is going to be pretty similar, I assure
you ID cards are not equivalent with police state, though it is hard to imagine some
sort of police state without any id cards. I used to leave in police state with ID cards
as well as in the democracy with and without the ID cards. The only piece missing is
the police state without ID cards, have to think about it:)

Lukasz

RogerCO · Post by **RogerCO** » 23 Jan 2006, 00:36

I agree with Lukasz here - what is all the paranoia about.

The existance of an ID card is neither necessary nor sufficient for a 'police state'

In fact I would say that way of confirming an individual's identity is a good thing for any society - what are you afraid of. If you wish to be part of society then you have duties and responsibilities as well as rights in your dealing with others and the state.

If, for example, we are short of energy or wish to fairly limit the pollution we each cause, then a means of identifying the individual is absolutely necessary.

If we wish to club together to help each other so that the temporarily well-off (the fit and active) support the temporarily weak (eg the young, the sick, the old) then we need a means of knowing who has entered into that social contract and their status.

This ridiculous notion of a right to personal privacy from society as represented by the state needs to be shown for the arrogant self-centred individualistic selfish arrant nonsense that it is.

No ID scheme will be perfect, but that is not a reason not to have one. There are many potential benefits from an ID scheme - if you do not want to be a member of society then you should go and live on your own. If you wish to partake of the benefits of social living (in ANY form of society) then you have to accept the duties and responsibilites along with the benefits - a social contract.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 23 Jan 2006, 01:28

My objection to the scheme is predominantly on fiscal grounds. The millions earmarked for ID cards could be put to so much better use, such as subsidising renewables projects and rebuilding our rail & tram networks.

revdode · Post by **revdode** » 23 Jan 2006, 07:33

RogerCO wrote:This ridiculous notion of a right to personal privacy from society as represented by the state needs to be shown for the arrogant self-centred individualistic selfish arrant nonsense that it is.

I'm not overly worried about privacy from society, I do have an issue with the the state as it is currently constituted claiming to represent that or any society.

No ID scheme will be perfect, but that is not a reason not to have one. There are many potential benefits from an ID scheme - if you do not want to be a member of society then you should go and live on your own. If you wish to partake of the benefits of social living (in ANY form of society) then you have to accept the duties and responsibilites along with the benefits - a social contract.

The nature and seriousness of the imperfections along with the total cost of the scheme are all unknown, this would seem like a fairly good set of reasons not to proceed.
I for one am perfectly happy with our social contract, in fact I'm so delighted I'm not trying to renegotiate it. I'm happy with it as it is, I pay my taxes and national insurance and get a level of help and support if I need it.

fishertrop · Post by **fishertrop** » 24 Jan 2006, 08:30

I'm not nuts: they really are out to get you
David Rowan
The Times January 24, 2006

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 82,00.html

Consider the unfeasibly detailed profiles that Google even today can build of its regular users. If you search casually for information about medications or a particular sexual proclivity, your interests are matched to your computer using a cookie set to expire in 2038. Deleting cookies ? lines of code deposited in your PC ? may not protect you: searches may also be matched to your PC?s particular internet protocol address, which can if necessary be used to locate you via your service provider. Should you log in to Google to collect your webmail or personalise your home page, the central servers will accumulate another potentially vast tranche of data traceable back to you.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 24 Jan 2006, 10:46

fishertrop wrote:I'm not nuts: they really are out to get you
David Rowan
The Times January 24, 2006

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 82,00.html

Consider the unfeasibly detailed profiles that Google even today can build of its regular users. If you search casually for information about medications or a particular sexual proclivity, your interests are matched to your computer using a cookie set to expire in 2038. Deleting cookies ? lines of code deposited in your PC ? may not protect you: searches may also be matched to your PC?s particular internet protocol address, which can if necessary be used to locate you via your service provider. Should you log in to Google to collect your webmail or personalise your home page, the central servers will accumulate another potentially vast tranche of data traceable back to you.

I would just love to see someone trying to write an "executive summary" about my Internet habits! The poor fellow would end up in an asylum..

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