Israel wants the Palestinian Gas

[biffvernon]

This is a good message for those who moan about Hamas.

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=547F7A71

[vtsnowedin]

Did you actually listen to that Noam Chomsky piece? No, of course you didn't. That would require you to actually understand what is going on here, instead of regurgitating filth.

NOAM CHOMSKY: As high Israeli officials concede, Hamas had observed the previous ceasefire for 19 months. The previous episode of "mowing the lawn" was in November 2012. There was a ceasefire. The ceasefire terms were that Hamas would not fire rockets—what they call rockets—and Israel would move to end the blockade and stop attacking what they call militants in Gaza. Hamas lived up to it. Israel concedes that.

In April of this year, an event took place which horrified the Israeli government: A unity agreement was formed between Gaza and the West Bank, between Hamas and Fatah. Israel has been desperately trying to prevent that for a long time. There’s a background we could talk about, but it’s important. Anyhow, the unity agreement came. Israel was furious. They got even more upset when the U.S. more or less endorsed it, which is a big blow to them. They launched a rampage in the West Bank.

What was used as a pretext was the brutal murder of three settler teenagers. There was a pretense that they were alive, though they knew they were dead. That allowed a huge—and, of course, they blamed it right away on Hamas. They have yet to produce a particle of evidence, and in fact their own highest leading authorities pointed out right away that the killers were probably from a kind of a rogue clan in Hebron, the Qawasmeh clan, which turns out apparently to be true. They’ve been a thorn in the sides of Hamas for years. They don’t follow their orders.

Hamas had observed the previous ceasefire for 19 months

That would be the nineteen months that they "only" fired four rockets a month and were building tunnels with materials supposedly for school construction.

Qawasmeh clan, which turns out apparently to be true. They’ve been a thorn in the sides of Hamas for years. They don’t follow their orders.

So Hamas "gives them orders" convenient that they don't follow them from time to time, isn't it? Again it is akin to saying," It was my little brother that shot out the widow with my BB gun that I loaded cocked and handed to him. I even pointed out the window to him and told him he couldn't hit it. I had nothing to do with it".

[biffvernon]

Refer back to my previous post.

[Budgie]

That would be the nineteen months that they "only" fired four rockets a month and were building tunnels with materials supposedly for school construction.
.[/quote]

If I decided to come into your house and take over 4/5ths of it by force because I have some powerful friends supporting me, kill off half your family and imprison the rest in the remaining 1/5th, you would try to do a lot more than fire 4 rockets a month at me and mine. Materials for schools and education would be the last thing on your mind when you are suffocating and on the verge of starving.

[Little John]

So Hamas "gives them orders" convenient that they don't follow them from time to time, isn't it? Again it is akin to saying," It was my little brother that shot out the widow with my BB gun that I loaded cocked and handed to him. I even pointed out the window to him and told him he couldn't hit it. I had nothing to do with it".

!You are"(EDITED KENNEAL) .............ex-services member who will defend his country’s warmongering policies no matter how heinous

[vtsnowedin]

If I decided to come into your house and take over 4/5ths of it by force because I have some powerful friends supporting me, kill off half your family and imprison the rest in the remaining 1/5th, you would try to do a lot more than fire 4 rockets a month at me and mine. Materials for schools and education would be the last thing on your mind when you are suffocating and on the verge of starving.

Yes they tried and failed. And instead of moving on they have sat there and bred like rabbits and quadrupled their population creating the vast majority of their problems today. As the population is growing at one of the fastest rates in the world the asserted genocide of the Israelis has failed miserably if real at all.

[vtsnowedin]

So Hamas "gives them orders" convenient that they don't follow them from time to time, isn't it? Again it is akin to saying," It was my little brother that shot out the widow with my BB gun that I loaded cocked and handed to him. I even pointed out the window to him and told him he couldn't hit it. I had nothing to do with it".

(EDITED KENNEAL) .......... ex-services who will defend his country’s warmongering policies no matter how heinous

Spare me the personal attacks Steve! We are all well aware of your opinion and constant repetition becomes tedious as you haven't bothered to find a more colorful way to express yourself.

[UndercoverElephant]

So Hamas "gives them orders" convenient that they don't follow them from time to time, isn't it? Again it is akin to saying," It was my little brother that shot out the widow with my BB gun that I loaded cocked and handed to him. I even pointed out the window to him and told him he couldn't hit it. I had nothing to do with it".

(EDITED KENNEAL) ..........ex-services who will defend his country’s warmongering policies no matter how heinous

Unfortunately I think he's just a normal yank. Nearly all of them are like this.

[Budgie]

If I decided to come into your house and take over 4/5ths of it by force because I have some powerful friends supporting me, kill off half your family and imprison the rest in the remaining 1/5th, you would try to do a lot more than fire 4 rockets a month at me and mine. Materials for schools and education would be the last thing on your mind when you are suffocating and on the verge of starving.

Yes they tried and failed. And instead of moving on they have sat there and bred like rabbits and quadrupled their population creating the vast majority of their problems today. As the population is growing at one of the fastest rates in the world the asserted genocide of the Israelis has failed miserably if real at all.

No, they have not failed, the Palestinians are still fighting for what is rightfully theirs. And day by day their position is getting stronger as the world slowly wakes up to the oppression they have been facing from the Israelis.

[vtsnowedin]

No, they have not failed, the Palestinians are still fighting for what is rightfully theirs. And day by day their position is getting stronger as the world slowly wakes up to the oppression they have been facing from the Israelis.

That's quite the set of rose colored glasses you are wearing there. Forty-seven years of confinement with every attempt at breakout resulting in stricter confinement can hardly be called anything else but failure. Their refusal to see the reality of it and to blindly press on can only be described as futile.Heroic perhaps but futile. Their problem is over population as it is across the entire Arab world and they maybe where this festering sore first breaks open. Regardless of moral or legal conventions, might more often then not makes right, and the probabilities of seven million Jews in Israel being killed or otherwise being forced out of Israel to make room for the Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank are infinitesimally small. And even if we consider that possibility you must add in that western aid would most probably cease and the ever growing population would soon go into overshoot and starve.
Anyway you look at it bad things will happen in this region in the near future and the most likely outcome for any citizen of Gaza is an early death long before the last of the Jews have given up.

[UndercoverElephant]

No, they have not failed, the Palestinians are still fighting for what is rightfully theirs. And day by day their position is getting stronger as the world slowly wakes up to the oppression they have been facing from the Israelis.

That's quite the set of rose colored glasses you are wearing there.

No it isn't. It's just that you are wearing glasses that turn reality upside-down. Of course they "failed" - they are a tiny nation with almost no resources trying to fight a proxy war with the United States. But their position is indeed getting "stronger" in the sense that the whole world, with the exception of the United States, is now turning against Israel because they are starting to see them for the criminal, nazi state they are.

Their refusal to see the reality of it and to blindly press on can only be described as futile.Heroic perhaps but futile.

So you, and Israel, are dreaming. It's neither heroic nor futile. The Palestinians have no choice but to keep fighting. The alternative is to allow Israel to take everything, give in and allow their land and future to permanently slip into somebody-else's hands - somebody else who had no right to take it. YOU would not settle for that. If you were Palestinian, then you'd fight. But you're not Palestinian - you're an American (EDITED - KENNEAL) who thinks his side should fight like bulldogs but that anybody else who is being f***ed over should just roll over and give in.

Their problem is over population

Their problem is their country was stolen by a load of nazi jews.

Anyway you look at it bad things will happen in this region in the near future and the most likely outcome for any citizen of Gaza is an early death long before the last of the Jews have given up.

No. The long-term outcome of this is the destruction of Israel.

[vtsnowedin]

No, they have not failed, the Palestinians are still fighting for what is rightfully theirs. And day by day their position is getting stronger as the world slowly wakes up to the oppression they have been facing from the Israelis.

That's quite the set of rose colored glasses you are wearing there.

No it isn't. It's just that you are wearing glasses that turn reality upside-down. Of course they "failed" - they are a tiny nation with almost no resources trying to fight a proxy war with the United States. But their position is indeed getting "stronger" in the sense that the whole world, with the exception of the United States, is now turning against Israel because they are starting to see them for the criminal, nazi state they are.

Their refusal to see the reality of it and to blindly press on can only be described as futile.Heroic perhaps but futile.

So you, and Israel, are dreaming. It's neither heroic nor futile. The Palestinians have no choice but to keep fighting. The alternative is to allow Israel to take everything, give in and allow their land and future to permanently slip into somebody-else's hands - somebody else who had no right to take it. YOU would not settle for that. If you were Palestinian, then you'd fight. But you're not Palestinian - you're an American - (EDITED - KENNEAL) who thinks his side should fight like bulldogs but that anybody else who is being ****** over should just roll over and give in.

Their problem is over population

Their problem is their country was stolen by a load of nazi jews.

Anyway you look at it bad things will happen in this region in the near future and the most likely outcome for any citizen of Gaza is an early death long before the last of the Jews have given up.

No. The long-term outcome of this is the destruction of Israel.

Your argument boils down to: Your wrong ,because I say you are wrong,
Your wrong, Because the whole world "Thinks" you are wrong.
Your wrong, Because the destruction of Israel is the moral and right thing to do and the good guys always win in the end.
Well that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.
I on the other hand see both sides of the history and look at the facts on the ground as they are today. I see little reason for your optimism concerning the Palestinian's future.
Your railing at me does little to improve the situation and by the way "Nazi-Jew "is an oxymoron.

[Little John]

That's quite the set of rose colored glasses you are wearing there.

No it isn't. It's just that you are wearing glasses that turn reality upside-down. Of course they "failed" - they are a tiny nation with almost no resources trying to fight a proxy war with the United States. But their position is indeed getting "stronger" in the sense that the whole world, with the exception of the United States, is now turning against Israel because they are starting to see them for the criminal, nazi state they are.

Their refusal to see the reality of it and to blindly press on can only be described as futile.Heroic perhaps but futile.

So you, and Israel, are dreaming. It's neither heroic nor futile. The Palestinians have no choice but to keep fighting. The alternative is to allow Israel to take everything, give in and allow their land and future to permanently slip into somebody-else's hands - somebody else who had no right to take it. YOU would not settle for that. If you were Palestinian, then you'd fight. But you're not Palestinian - you're an American - (EDITED - KENNEAL)who thinks his side should fight like bulldogs but that anybody else who is being ****** over should just roll over and give in.

Their problem is over population

Their problem is their country was stolen by a load of nazi jews.

Anyway you look at it bad things will happen in this region in the near future and the most likely outcome for any citizen of Gaza is an early death long before the last of the Jews have given up.

No. The long-term outcome of this is the destruction of Israel.

Your argument boils down to: Your wrong ,because I say you are wrong,
Your wrong, Because the whole world "Thinks" you are wrong.
Your wrong, Because the destruction of Israel is the moral and right thing to do and the good guys always win in the end.
Well that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.
I on the other hand see both sides of the history and look at the facts on the ground as they are today. I see little reason for your optimism concerning the Palestinian's future.
Your railing at me does little to improve the situation and by the way "Nazi-Jew "is an oxymoron.

I could answer this shit, but is merely sufficient that others who read this thread see it for the shit it is.

You and your country's days as top-dog are numbered. You'd better start working out how to get used to it instead of continuing to think you can brutalise the world to your will indefinitely. You can't. One thing is for certain; once the cracks start to show, as they are already doing, a large part of the rest of the world will be only too eager to stick the knife in wherever and whenever they can. And your country will deserve all of it. What will be even grimmer, however, will be witnessing your culture devour itself in the process since it has no reserves of self-reflection, humility or collective endeavour to fall back on when times get tough.

A culture fuelled by individualistic, atomised greed and fear. I'd feel sorry for your country if I did not detest it so much.

[snow hope]

For goodness sake this bickering and slandering is getting us nowhere.

There is no doubt this is a terrible situation and of course there are two sides, both of which have some right and some wrong doing to greater and lesser degrees.

But I am glad vtsnowedin contributes to this board and I think we all need to show people with opposing points of view a little more respect no matter how much we might disagree with them. Any chance folks?

[UndercoverElephant]

No.

This appalling situation is being directly sustained by the United States of America. They are entirely responsible both for the illegal and immoral creation of Israel in the first place, and for the inability of the rest of the international community to bring the bastards who run that country under some sort of control. All this blood is on their hands, and all our resident American can do is attack the Palestinians and defend the indefensible actions of Israel. Let him and his stinking cesspit of a country burn in hell.