Iraq falling apart

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:12

stevecook172001 wrote:
fifthcolumn wrote:
biffvernon wrote:What a mess. I think some of us suggested a dozen years ago that invading Iraq was not a smart thing to do.
No, it was the right thing to do. We just did it very poorly.
Why was it the right thing to do?

The right thing to do was once oil prices were stabilized, move forthwith to an electricity based transport system. But we didn't. And so we are stuck. 10 years further down the line with 10 years less oil.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:15

fifthcolumn wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
fifthcolumn wrote: No, it was the right thing to do. We just did it very poorly.
Why was it the right thing to do?
The right thing to do was once oil prices were stabilized, move forthwith to an electricity based transport system. But we didn't. And so we are stuck. 10 years further down the line with 10 years less oil.

I can more or less agree with that. However, notwithstanding, you haven't actually answered my question. Please answer it.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:16

stevecook172001 wrote:
fifthcolumn wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:Why was it the right thing to do?
The right thing to do was once oil prices were stabilized, move forthwith to an electricity based transport system. But we didn't. And so we are stuck. 10 years further down the line with 10 years less oil.
I can more or less agree with that. However, notwithstanding, you haven't actually answered my question. Please answer it.

Ha! I thought I had.
Do I really have to spell it out?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:19

fifthcolumn wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
fifthcolumn wrote: The right thing to do was once oil prices were stabilized, move forthwith to an electricity based transport system. But we didn't. And so we are stuck. 10 years further down the line with 10 years less oil.
I can more or less agree with that. However, notwithstanding, you haven't actually answered my question. Please answer it.
Ha! I thought I had.
Do I really have to spell it out?

Yes please.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:25

I'm only going to post it once because I can tell you're from the camp that thinks USA = Imperialist warmongering scum instead of USA=trying to keep the lights on for business and as a side effect much greater freedoms for the citizens of the free countries than they would otherwise have.

1. Middle East= Lots of <the only remaining> Oil
2. Russia, China, Iran the EU and the USA all know this
3. Citizens of the EU and USA = stupid as fnck and instead of going wholesale for electric transport they insist on watching top gear and not changing their behaviours.
4. Russia, China, Iran etc don't like the USA very much and think the EU is just for exploitation if at all possible.
5. Invade Iraq and control the oil.
6. If the USA does it then Europe gets the oil, European business continues, European banks don't collapse, the EU continues to be a market for the US.
7. If Russia or Iran does it, the EU is fecked and the US banks will be fecked and the US economy will suffer a recession.
8. If China does it then China gets the oil, the EU is feck and the US banks will be fecked etc
9. Better would be to convince people in the EU to vote for nuclear and renewables and electric transport but it's not happening. Thus the mess we are in right now.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:29

fifthcolumn wrote:I'm only going to post it once because I can tell you're from the camp that thinks USA = Imperialist warmongering scum instead of USA=trying to keep the lights on for business and as a side effect much greater freedoms for the citizens of the free countries than they would otherwise have.

1. Middle East= Lots of <the only remaining> Oil
2. Russia, China, Iran the EU and the USA all know this
3. Citizens of the EU and USA = stupid as fnck and instead of going wholesale for electric transport they insist on watching top gear and not changing their behaviours.
4. Russia, China, Iran etc don't like the USA very much and think the EU is just for exploitation if at all possible.
5. Invade Iraq and control the oil.
6. If the USA does it then Europe gets the oil, European business continues, European banks don't collapse, the EU continues to be a market for the US.
7. If Russia or Iran does it, the EU is fecked and the US banks will be fecked and the US economy will suffer a recession.
8. If China does it then China gets the oil, the EU is feck and the US banks will be fecked etc
9. Better would be to convince people in the EU to vote for nuclear and renewables and electric transport but it's not happening. Thus the mess we are in right now.

Notwithstanding your completely foundationless assumptions about what "camp" you think I am from, I guess I should thank you for the little bit of honesty I have finally managed to winkle from you. I'll reply to it in the morning, but right now I need to get back to bed.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 01 Jul 2014, 04:37

I imagine you meant to say "foundationless". But in any event, I'm operating on the assumption of what I said and in the interests of diplomacy let's just leave it at that. I am firmly in one particular camp (you can guess which one without having to spell it out) Getting into it won't enable us to have a rational discussion so let's just talk about the geopolitical implications of Europe being short of oil and most of the available oil (for Europe) not controlled by Russia being in the middle east.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 01 Jul 2014, 08:31

Here's a chilling portrayal of the fundamentalist mindset:

Richard Thompson - Outside Of The Inside

God never listened to Charlie Parker
Charlie Parker lived in vain
Blasphemer, womaniser,
Let a needle numb his brain
Wash away his monkey music
Damn his demons, Damn his pain

And what's the point of Albert Einstein
What do we need Physics for?
Heresy's his inspiration
Corrupt and rotten to the core
Curse his devious mathematics
Curse his deadly atom war

There's a message on the wind
Calling me to glory somewhere
There are signs too deep for the dumb
Like perfume in the air
And when I get to Heaven
I won't realise I'm there

Shakespeare, Isaac Newton
Small ideas for little boys
Adding to the senseless chatter
Adding to the background noise
Hard to hear my oratory
Hard to hear my inner voice

Van gogh, Botticelli
Scraping paint onto a board
Colour is the fuel of madness
That's no way to praise the Lord
Grey's the colour of the pious
Knelt upon the misericord

There's a message on the wind
Calling me to glory somewhere
There are signs too deep for the dumb
Like perfume in the air
And when I get to Heaven
I won't realise I'm there

I'm familiar with the cover
I don't need to read the book
I police the world of action
Inside's where I never look
Got no time to help the worthless
Lotus-eaters, Mandarins, crooks

There's a message on the wind
Calling me to glory somewhere
There are signs too deep for the dumb
Like perfume in the air
And when I get to Heaven
I won't realise I'm there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLYh1fB438&feature=kp

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 30 Jul 2014, 03:54

I've been thinking about Iraq, Libya, Syria and the likes of SIS a lot over the last few weeks in between witnessing the lies and atrocities in Ukraine and Palestine.

And something does not smell right at all.

While every one's attention is focussed on Ukraine and Palestine, for obvious reasons, there are major gains being made by ISIS and other forces in places like Syria and Iraq. While the West screams blue-murder at the downing of a plane in Ukraine and acts as chief apologist for the crimes of Israel, there is a deafening silence at the level of brutality occurring in Iraq right now. When it is reported, it is referred to as a religious war between Sunnis and Shias and it certainly is that, if only in part. But, I am now beginning to suspect that this conflict is being deliberately facilitated by competing global powers who are using the likes of ISIS to destabilize whole countries in preparation to further conquer and re-map the Middle East.

In all of the reporting, thus far, of the advance of ISIS and the setting up of a Caliphate state of Islam, nowhere have I seen in the MSM the simple question asked of who, precisely, is arming ISIS and how, exactly, did a group as significant as them completely slip under the radar of American intelligence?

Like I said, it doesn’t smell right.

In any event, the world seems to be in flames at the moment wherever you care to look. Is this how WW3 starts then? Not with a bang, but with a long fuse.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 30 Jul 2014, 10:11

Steve, you could well be right and there would be no surprises. Well, apart from the MSM being "surprised," that is.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 30 Jul 2014, 11:18

Well we all know don't we, that when we are in a dire financial situation, TPTB create war? So on that basis it appears clear what is coming.

In fact it seems to be a no-brainer.....

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Aug 2014, 14:35

You know things are progressing towards the madhouse when monstrous contradictions start to appear. For instance, it occurs to me that while the USA is busy bombing ISIS (or its derivatives) In Iraq, it is equally busy supporting ISIS (or its derivatives) in Syria.

I bet Obama is busy saying his prayers and crossing his fingers every night, that it all holds together just until his tenure is ended....

You couldn't make this shit up

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 11 Aug 2014, 14:55

Yes, as ever, American foreign policy just beggars belief....

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 11 Aug 2014, 16:23

And the bombs that the Americans dropped in Iraq were used to destroy weapons supplied by, er, the Americans.

Well, I suppose it's all good for the US arms industry.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 11 Aug 2014, 16:52

Well, I suppose it's all good for the US arms industry.

Err..Think you just hit the nail on the head there.