Ukraine Watch...

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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Not sure I agree with that.

The BBC is a establishment institution with a metropolitan left-of-centre outlook (shared by the bulk of its workers).

So it is instinctively anti-UKIP, naturally sympathetic to the Labour Party and the more liberal elitist elements of the Tory Party and fundamentally in line with the British ruling class - even if it comes from a liberal reformist perspective.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

Ukrainian Prime Minister quits

The problems besetting the Ukrainian Junta are growing daily..
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
Little John

Post by Little John »

The BBC is now deleting any evidence within it's remit to do so that points in any direction other than the narratives of it's masters.

http://rt.com/news/175476-bbc-deleted-report-mh17/

In this case, it's a report by BBC Russia that interviews eye witnesses who state categorically that a missile system was deployed in the area by the Ukrainian forces in the days preceding the downing of the plane and also that the plane was closely accompanied by a Ukrainian jet immediately prior to it coming down. The BBC removed the report very shortly after it was published. However, people from political watch groups and other social media sites had already taken a copy of it and, as soon as it was deleted, posted it up on YouTube. The video has since been deleted a large number of times from Youtube, only to re-posted by people as soon as it does. It now appears the BBC has given up trying to delete it due to the growing social media backlash.

You really couldn't make this shit up.
Tarrel
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Post by Tarrel »

You really couldn't make this shit up.
Well, Orwell made a pretty good effort. :)
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

The BBC must be getting itself in shape for privatisation under the TTiP.
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raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

The Automatic Earth has another really good essay:
Ilargi wrote:In short, this is a financial war based on hearsay and humbug, which the US and EU can only start and continue if they keep their people angry enough, and therefore misinformed enough. That may not turn out to be as easy as they think today. It may depend on what Russia can show and tell the western media.

It may also depend on reactions in the west to fast rising energy prices. Which, if these sanctions are voted in (not certain by any means), seem inevitable. The US and its short term shale riches may feel fine about that (something that may come to haunt them), but for Europe the consequences could be devastating, and as rapidly as the sanctions hit

Russia’s economy.

My guess is Brussels’ bureaucrats have been fooled into believing that they can beat Russia and take over – much of – its energy wealth. That does not look smart at all, but then these people never were. They know how to squeeze Greece and Italy, and the success there has gone to their heads. But as soon as they would even get close to Russia’s oil and gas – which I don’t think they will -, the US would step in and take it away from them. That’s how powers are divided in today’s world. As I said earlier this week, best remember who your friends are.
The Big Energy = Power Battle is Coming
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
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RenewableCandy
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Post by RenewableCandy »

When I was a small Renewable, my Mum said, if you ever find yourself in government, Never wage war on Russia.

I took her advice :D
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Little John

Post by Little John »

Reminds me of story about the Russians. It concerns the Russian and German tanks from the second world war. The German ones were, as you might expect, marvels of precision engineering. The Russian ones, on the other hand, were as rough as a bear's arse and nowhere near as technically proficient as the German tanks. Which is why the Germans simply could not psychologically deal with the fact that the Russian tanks were whipping their arses on the battlefield. It came down to two things: Firstly, the Russian tanks, being very simple, could be manufactured many time faster than the German ones and, although they were not a match for a German tank in a one on one battle, they beat the German ones simply by virtue of outnumbering them. The second reason was that Russians are hard as nails, fiercely patriotic and are truly not afraid to die.....by the millions if necessary.

It was largely Russian blood that saved out arses in the War. The Yanks came in only after the Russians had done all the really dirty work. But, of course, that's all been airbrushed out of history because it doesn't suit the narrative.
another_exlurker
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Post by another_exlurker »

stevecook172001 wrote:Reminds me of story about the Russians. It concerns the Russian and German tanks from the second world war. The German ones were, as you might expect, marvels of precision engineering. The Russian ones, on the other hand, were as rough as a bear's arse and nowhere near as technically proficient as the German tanks. Which is why the Germans simply could not psychologically deal with the fact that the Russian tanks were whipping their arses on the battlefield. It came down to two things: Firstly, the Russian tanks, being very simple, could be manufactured many time faster than the German ones and, although they were not a match for a German tank in a one on one battle, they beat the German ones simply by virtue of outnumbering them. The second reason was that Russians are hard as nails, fiercely patriotic and are truly not afraid to die.....by the millions if necessary.
That would be the T-34.
It was largely Russian blood that saved out arses in the War. The Yanks came in only after the Russians had done all the really dirty work. But, of course, that's all been airbrushed out of history because it doesn't suit the narrative.
Agreed.
another_exlurker
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Post by another_exlurker »

As WhoWhatWhy readers know, the real reasons surrounding a conflict are often buried under the headlines and rhetoric. So it shouldn’t come as any surprise that, behind the scenes, oil and natural gas are driving a big piece of the U.S. response to Russian involvement in Ukraine.

<snip>

To truly understand how intrinsic South Stream is to Russian economic influence over Europe, one only has to look at some of the targets of U.S. sanctions against Russian or Russian-linked companies. Two of them were directly aimed at slowing down or stopping South Stream.

The first South Stream-related company the U.S. targeted was Stroytransgaz, which is building the Bulgarian section. Putin ally and billionaire Gennady Timchenko owns it and he’s already on the sanctions list. So Stroytransgaz had to stop construction or risk exposing other companies on the project to the sanctions.
Original article.
Little John

Post by Little John »

EU economic sanctions on Russia won’t affect gas sector – Van Rompuy

http://rt.com/business/175688-eu-russia-sanctions-gas/

so, The EU believes is can selectively impose sanction of it's own choosing that will hurt Russia in way that only the EU decides, but leaves Russia free to trade in the gas that the EU needs.

If I were Putin I'd turn the bloody taps off.
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

raspberry-blower wrote: Ukrainian Prime Minister quits

The problems besetting the Ukrainian Junta are growing daily..
Further to this, The Automatic Earth has its take on recent developments:
Ilargi wrote:While I don’t rule out that URDA, Kiev mayor Klitschko’s party, may have left the coalition in part as a protest against the army’s continued and intensified assault on east Ukraine, I’d put my money on Yatsenyuk’s failure to deliver control over Ukraine’s energy industry to western interests as the reason he left. And I’m equally sure there is a plan B in place to use the ensuing political – and military – chaos to let the west take over large parts of Naftogaz anyway.

That’s why we’re there. It’s an energy war. IMF loans, IMF-style reforms – in an EU sauce -, the whole package is in place. And Yats failed to make it happen. It’s very possible that “we” have found an alternative option to get what we want in President Poroshenko, who can rule like an emperor until the end of this year.
So Yats was pushed because he couldn't deliver. How many others will go the same way?

Also in this essay, there is this highly pertinent paragraph:
Ilargi wrote:While many may not yet be fully aware of how valid it already is, the energy=power principle will become much more pronounced as less energy becomes available – we’ve entered that phase – . If energy equals power, less energy equals less power, and if you don’t want to lose your power, you will have to take someone else’s resources, and that will in almost all cases involve some act of war, be it economic, physical or otherwise (e.g. propaganda).
US and EU Lose Major Energy Battle in Ukraine
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
Little John

Post by Little John »

The propaganda gloves have certainly come off and, at some point in the not too distant future, we are going to get straightforward, unalloyed, non-proxied conflicts between the major players. It's blatantly obvious that's coming.
Last edited by Little John on 28 Jul 2014, 14:25, edited 1 time in total.
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

stevecook172001 wrote:The propaganda gloves have certainly come off and, at some point in the not too distant future, we are going to get straightforward, unalloyed non-proxied conflicts between the major players. It's blatantly obvious that's coming.
On very much the same track, Club Orlov: Fact Free Zone
Dimtry Orlov wrote: First, a bit of background. Ukraine has always been a rather lopsided country. There are the Russian provinces in the east, which had coal, industry, good farmland, and lots of trade with Russia proper. They used to be Russia proper until Lenin lumped them into Ukraine, in an effort to improve it. And then there is western Ukraine, which, with the possible exception of Kiev, could never earn its keep. In terms of economic and social development, it resembles an African nation. Since its independence, Ukraine had subsisted through trade with Russia and through transfer payments from (Russian-speaking) Ukrainian citizens working in Russia. Because of fighting in the east, trade with Russia has been disrupted. Ukraine has been cut off from Russian natural gas supplies due to nonpayment; as a result, more and more Ukrainian cities no longer supply hot water, and come winter, there will be no heat. The economy is in freefall. The Ukrainian government received some funds from the IMF, but these are being squandered on the failing military campaign. The association agreement which Ukraine signed with the EU remains a dead letter because Ukraine does not make anything that the EU wants, and Ukraine has no money with which to buy anything the EU makes. So much for Ukrainian economic strategy.

And so, from the Ukrainian government's perspective, shooting down an airliner and blaming it on Putin (which is something that western governments and media are only too happy to do) probably seemed like a good ploy.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
another_exlurker
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Post by another_exlurker »

This really has descended into a farce.
Sunday Telegraph wrote: Vladimir Putin is facing a multi-million-pound legal action for his alleged role in the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet over eastern Ukraine, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.

British lawyers are preparing a class action against the Russian president through the American courts. Senior Russian military commanders and politicians close to Mr Putin are also likely to become embroiled in the legal claim.
:roll:

Original article.
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