Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Moderator: Peak Moderation
The way I saw it - maybe I'm wrong - but Sushil did give a hint about doing something. He said that we already give "food stamps" to the un-employed, and suggested we could perhaps give "food-stamps" to all the workers in the cities. I suppose we could use the huge capital which exists in the conglomerates to do this, since those conglomerates would no longer exist - have no "workers". This would be an interim phase, while those same people are slowly repurposed outside of the cities doing ever increasing manual agrarian and hands-on work, making clothing, furniture etc. He was saying that as soon as possible, we should let the people work at actually manually making things/growing food, rather than operating machinery and/or counting the numbers. He was not saying starve the cities, he was saying that it may be possible to dismantle industrial society and purposefully return orderly to agrarian, rather than wait for that change to happen forcibly due to the obvious finite nature of Industrial society.
The Universe does Balance and Equilibrium - neither excess nor deficit
Perhaps humanity would have been wise to follow it's example
Perhaps humanity would have been wise to follow it's example
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RenewableCandy
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RenewableCandy
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sushil_yadav
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A pure non industrial society is not possible now because industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.
We are currently destroying environment for food, clothing, shelter and thousands of consumer goods.
We are destroying exponential extra environment for thousands of consumer goods.
Production of consumer goods must stop immediately.
We should limit our activity primarily to food, clothing, shelter.
As for food, it is not a problem at all .....we can easily feed the current population and even a bigger population.
When industrial society says industrial agriculture is feeding 7 billion people it is very misleading.
Industrial society is not doing a favour to anyone by feeding 7 billion people.
7 billion population is a consequence of industrialization.....If man had stayed in agrarian stage, total world population would have been less than 2 billion today......Agrarian agriculture would have fed this population.....And if at all there had been some shortage of food, only the excess population would have died, not the entire human population.
Secondly, industrial agriculture is not feeding 7 billion people.....It is overfeeding half of the population and underfeeding the remaining half........40 - 50% of packaged food in industrial society is either thrown away or goes waste during processing, transportation or due to extra buying and the nonsense of expiry dates.
Half of the industrial population has grown obese due to overeating and the remaining half is starving because of faulty distribution or because they don't have money to buy food (Out of millions of species on earth, human species is the only lunatic one whose food comes from money).
Packaged food requires millions of tonnes of plastic.....Most of this ends up in rivers and ocean....This plastic is killing millions of animals, birds and fish(who ingest it mistaking it for food) every day.
This world can easily feed many more people than the current human population if the food grains used to feed cattle whose meat is then consumed by billions of people is directly given to people as food.
It takes 8 - 10 kilogram of crops and food grains to produce 1 kilogram of meat.
A vegetarian diet can feed many times the number of people who live on non-vegetarian food.
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The nonsense of eating meat and fish every day or several times a week and then growing obese is a consequence of industrialization.
In pre-industrial society most of the people were vegetarian most of the time.
In pre-industrial society most of the food was vegetarian most of the time.
There were very few people who could eat meat or fish every day or several times a week.
Most of the meat eaters could eat meat only on special occasions.
In the absence of industrial farming of animals, industrial slaughter houses, industrial fishing, industrial refrigeration and industrial transportation, very few animals and fish were available for killing and consumption in pre-industrial society.
.
.
Man lived primarily on vegetarian food for thousands of years before industrialization.
A vegetarian diet can feed many times the number of people who live on non-vegetarian food.
.
A pure non industrial society is not possible now because industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.
We are currently destroying environment for food, clothing, shelter and thousands of consumer goods.
We are destroying exponential extra environment for thousands of consumer goods.
Production of consumer goods must stop immediately.
We should limit our activity primarily to food, clothing, shelter.
As for food, it is not a problem at all .....we can easily feed the current population and even a bigger population.
When industrial society says industrial agriculture is feeding 7 billion people it is very misleading.
Industrial society is not doing a favour to anyone by feeding 7 billion people.
7 billion population is a consequence of industrialization.....If man had stayed in agrarian stage, total world population would have been less than 2 billion today......Agrarian agriculture would have fed this population.....And if at all there had been some shortage of food, only the excess population would have died, not the entire human population.
Secondly, industrial agriculture is not feeding 7 billion people.....It is overfeeding half of the population and underfeeding the remaining half........40 - 50% of packaged food in industrial society is either thrown away or goes waste during processing, transportation or due to extra buying and the nonsense of expiry dates.
Half of the industrial population has grown obese due to overeating and the remaining half is starving because of faulty distribution or because they don't have money to buy food (Out of millions of species on earth, human species is the only lunatic one whose food comes from money).
Packaged food requires millions of tonnes of plastic.....Most of this ends up in rivers and ocean....This plastic is killing millions of animals, birds and fish(who ingest it mistaking it for food) every day.
This world can easily feed many more people than the current human population if the food grains used to feed cattle whose meat is then consumed by billions of people is directly given to people as food.
It takes 8 - 10 kilogram of crops and food grains to produce 1 kilogram of meat.
A vegetarian diet can feed many times the number of people who live on non-vegetarian food.
.
.
The nonsense of eating meat and fish every day or several times a week and then growing obese is a consequence of industrialization.
In pre-industrial society most of the people were vegetarian most of the time.
In pre-industrial society most of the food was vegetarian most of the time.
There were very few people who could eat meat or fish every day or several times a week.
Most of the meat eaters could eat meat only on special occasions.
In the absence of industrial farming of animals, industrial slaughter houses, industrial fishing, industrial refrigeration and industrial transportation, very few animals and fish were available for killing and consumption in pre-industrial society.
.
.
Man lived primarily on vegetarian food for thousands of years before industrialization.
A vegetarian diet can feed many times the number of people who live on non-vegetarian food.
.
Last edited by sushil_yadav on 17 Jul 2014, 02:36, edited 1 time in total.
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vtsnowedin
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sushil_yadav wrote:.
A pure non industrial society is not possible now because industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.
We are currently destroying environment for food, clothing, shelter and thousands of consumer goods.
We are destroying exponential extra environment for thousands of consumer goods.
Production of consumer goods must stop immediately.
We should limit our activity primarily to food, clothing, shelter.
As for food, it is not a problem at all .....we can easily feed the current population and even a bigger population.
When industrial society says industrial agriculture is feeding 7 billion people it is very misleading.
Industrial society is not doing a favour to anyone by feeding 7 billion people.
7 billion population is a consequence of industrialization.....If man had stayed in agrarian stage, total world population would have been less than 2 billion today......Agrarian agriculture would have fed this population.....And if at all there had been some shortage of food, only the excess population would have died, not the entire human population.
Secondly, industrial agriculture is not feeding 7 billion people.....It is overfeeding half of the population and underfeeding the remaining half........40 - 50% of packaged food in industrial society is either thrown away or goes waste during processing, transportation or due to extra buying and the nonsense of expiry dates.
Half of the industrial population has grown obese due to overeating and the remaining half is starving because of faulty distribution or because they don't have money to buy food (Out of millions of species on earth, human species is the only lunatic one whose food comes from money).
This world can easily feed many more people than the current human population if the food grains used to feed cattle whose meat is then consumed by billions of people is directly given to people as food.
It takes 8 - 10 kilogram of crops and food grains to produce 1 kilogram of meat.
A vegetarian diet can feed many times the number of people who live on non-vegetarian food.
.
.
The nonsense of eating meat and fish every day or several times a week and then growing obese is a consequence of industrialization.It takes 8 - 10 kilogram of crops and food grains to produce 1 kilogram of meat. times a week.
Most of the meat eaters could eat meat only on special occasions.
In the absence of industrial farming of animals, industrial slaughter houses, industrial fishing, industrial refrigeration and industrial transportation, very few animals and fish were available for killing and consumption in pre-industrial society.
.
.
Man lived primarily on vegetarian food for thousands of years before industrialization.
A vegetarian diet can feed many times the number of people who live on non-vegetarian food.
.
That would not be a good plan.Production of consumer goods must stop immediately.
We should limit our activity primarily to food, clothing, shelter.
Food clothing and shelter are the primary consumer goods. We consume them hence the definition.
Again not a good plan. We would just breed to double that population enough times to exceed that ability. Why wait and stress the environment that much further.As for food, it is not a problem at all .....we can easily feed the current population and even a bigger population.
Your numbers are off here by a factor of from 2 to 4. For Beef being finished in a feed lot it is 7 for pork it is 4 and for chicken it is 2. now do you want to eat corn meal mush every day of you life or have some shisk- kabobs thrown in?It takes 8 - 10 kilogram of crops and food grains to produce 1 kilogram of meat.
And before that they lived for millions of years eating all they meat they could get supplemented with what vegetable matter the women could gather while the men were hunting.Man lived primarily on vegetarian food for thousands of years before industrialization.
On a per capita basis there were plenty. you fail to realize that much of the worlds land is not suitable for tillage and the growing of grain. Much of this steep rough and semi arid ground is however suitable for grassing of meat animals which allows us to convert grass weeds and bushes into something we can consume. Also you cant grow grain on an ocean but fish do alright.In the absence of industrial farming of animals, industrial slaughter houses, industrial fishing, industrial refrigeration and industrial transportation, very few animals and fish were available for killing and consumption in pre-industrial society.
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sushil_yadav
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Meat consumption in pre-industrial society was very limited and it hardly caused environmental destruction because it did not involve industrial activity.
Meat consumption in industrial society has caused largescale environmental destruction because it involves industrial activity.
Millions of acres of rain forests have been destroyed in south america (and also other continents) to produce grains for cattle whose meat is exported to US, Europe and Gulf countries (and also consumed locally).
Meat industry is a very big consumer of water which it needs to raise billions of farm animals for slaughtering.
Meat industry is a big polluter of water......Millions of gallons of blood of slaughtered animals and other liquid waste goes into rivers and oceans.
Meat industry is a big consumer of electricity and oil whose production destroys environment......Slaughter houses require huge amounts of electricity.....Storing of meat requires refrigeration which consumes a large amount of electricity and oil.....Transportation of meat to national and international destinations requires oil....Marketing and selling of meat requires millions of shops and malls which also consume huge amounts of electricity.
Construction of slaughter houses, shops and malls for producing and selling meat destroys trees and fertile soil.
Production of trucks, trains and ships for transporting live cattle and frozen meat destroys environment.
Meat industry is a major cause of environmental destruction.
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We can feed ourselves in two ways.
If we directly feed humans with grains instead of feeding the cattle whose meat is then consumed by man, we can feed more people and prevent the environmental destruction caused by meat industry.
If humans continue consuming meat, we will feed less people (because many kilograms of grain is required to produce one kilogram of meat) and we will also destroy huge amounts of environment to run the meat industry.
Vegetarian food feeds more people with less environmental destruction.
Non vegetarian food feeds less people with more environmental destruction.
.
Meat consumption in pre-industrial society was very limited and it hardly caused environmental destruction because it did not involve industrial activity.
Meat consumption in industrial society has caused largescale environmental destruction because it involves industrial activity.
Millions of acres of rain forests have been destroyed in south america (and also other continents) to produce grains for cattle whose meat is exported to US, Europe and Gulf countries (and also consumed locally).
Meat industry is a very big consumer of water which it needs to raise billions of farm animals for slaughtering.
Meat industry is a big polluter of water......Millions of gallons of blood of slaughtered animals and other liquid waste goes into rivers and oceans.
Meat industry is a big consumer of electricity and oil whose production destroys environment......Slaughter houses require huge amounts of electricity.....Storing of meat requires refrigeration which consumes a large amount of electricity and oil.....Transportation of meat to national and international destinations requires oil....Marketing and selling of meat requires millions of shops and malls which also consume huge amounts of electricity.
Construction of slaughter houses, shops and malls for producing and selling meat destroys trees and fertile soil.
Production of trucks, trains and ships for transporting live cattle and frozen meat destroys environment.
Meat industry is a major cause of environmental destruction.
.
.
We can feed ourselves in two ways.
If we directly feed humans with grains instead of feeding the cattle whose meat is then consumed by man, we can feed more people and prevent the environmental destruction caused by meat industry.
If humans continue consuming meat, we will feed less people (because many kilograms of grain is required to produce one kilogram of meat) and we will also destroy huge amounts of environment to run the meat industry.
Vegetarian food feeds more people with less environmental destruction.
Non vegetarian food feeds less people with more environmental destruction.
.
Last edited by sushil_yadav on 19 Jul 2014, 18:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Little John
Tell that to innumerable large mega fauna we hunted to extinction, or otherwise drove to extinction by overrunning their eco systems from the very beginning of our migration out of Africa. There was no industrialised meat production and consumption back then Sushil.sushil_yadav wrote:Meat consumption in pre-industrial society was very limited and it hardly caused environmental destruction because it did not involve industrial activity.....
Meat consumption in industrial society has merely increased the environmental destruction humans have always wreaked on the eco-system to a planetary scale. The change is not one of type, it is merely one of scale. In other words, there are simply more of us in more places doing it now. And the underlying reason for that is the energy that has allowed us to do it. Namely hydrocarbons. The damage inflicted on the earth due to massive meat consumption is an effect, not a cause. If humans went over to a completely vegetarian diet we would simply end up, in due course, with many more billions of humans wreaking exactly the same level of damage......Meat consumption in industrial society has caused largescale environmental destruction because it involves industrial activity.....
The cause is humans Sushil. It's always been humans. Or, to be more specific, the cause is the blind and unthinking nature of Darwinian natural selection leading to humans. We will never be able to save ourselves Sushil. It's just not in our nature. The only thing that will save us now is a mass dying imposed on us by war, famine, pestilence or disease. My only hope is that it comes sooner rather than later so as to minimise the damage already done.
We are our own (and the rest of life's) worst enemy.
Last edited by Little John on 19 Jul 2014, 13:08, edited 5 times in total.
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vtsnowedin
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sushil_yadav wrote:.
Meat consumption in pre-industrial society was very limited and it hardly caused environmental destruction because it did not involve industrial activity.
Meat consumption in industrial society has caused largescale environmental destruction because it involves industrial activity.
Millions of acres of rain forests have been destroyed in South America (and also other continents) to produce grains for cattle whose meat is exported to US, Europe and Gulf countries (and also consumed locally).
The meat industry is a very big consumer of water which it needs to raise billions of farm animals for slaughtering.
The meat industry is a big polluter of water......Millions of gallons of blood of slaughtered animals and other liquid waste goes into rivers and oceans.
The meat industry is a big consumer of electricity and oil whose production destroys environment......Slaughter houses require huge amounts of electricity....The .Storing of meat requires refrigeration which consumes a large amount of electricity and oil...The transportation of meat to national and international destinations requires oil., And the marketing and selling of meat requires millions of shops and malls which also consume huge amounts of electricity.
Construction of slaughter houses, shops and malls for producing and selling meat destroys trees and fertile soil.
The construction of trucks, trains and ships for transporting live cattle and frozen meat destroys environment.
And last but not least the
meat industry is a major cause of environmental destruction.
.
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sushil_yadav
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Happy New Year to everyone.........Forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere destroyed........Millions of species tortured, slaughtered and decimated.........The planet littered with billions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and ewaste.........Happy New Year.
When we say happy new year, do we realize how happy the new years have been for nature after industrialization?..........Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years..........Happy New Year.
Destroy the planet whole year and then party on new year eve to welcome another year.........Repeat this year after year........Unlimited celebration and unrestrained hedonism is a consequence of industrialization and urbanization.
Years have been changing on earth for millions of years but the change in year was not associated with decadence, depravity, entertainment and pleasure chasing ..........This madness has existed for just 50 - 100 years.
For thousands of years before industrialization, new year was welcomed with prayer and worship not with decadence and depravity.
Industrial man is engaged in two main activities........Destruction and Celebration.
Agrarian society did not have Entertainment Industry, Music Industry, Film Industry, Tourism Industry, Fashion Industry, Restaurant and Food Industry, Alcohol and Drugs Industry..
Agrarian society did not have millions of pubs, bars, discos and parties.
Agrarian society did not produce millions of tonnes of alcohol.
Agrarian society did not produce thousands of tonnes of synthetic/ designer drugs.
Agrarian society did not have millions of prostitutes/ sex workers.
In agrarian society more than 99% of population was producing food.........All crazy activities happen when society does not produce food.........In industrial society 50% of world population is not producing food........That is why there is so much hedonism, decadence, depravity and pleasure chasing in industrial society.
The planet is dying and gasping for last breath but pleasure seeking hedonists don't even seem to notice because they are being continuously drugged by Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Music Industry, Film Industry, Tourism Industry, Fashion Industry, Restaurant and Food Industry, Alcohol and Drugs Industry.
Industrial society is destroying environment every moment and celebrating every moment of destruction.
Work Hard.....Play Hard.
Destroy Hard.....Enjoy Hard.
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.
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The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The reason it is not in jail is because the system is being run by urban population.
Man lived in hunter_gatherer society for one million years........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
When we say happy new year, do we realize how happy the new years have been for nature after industrialization?..........Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years..........Happy New Year.
Destroy the planet whole year and then party on new year eve to welcome another year.........Repeat this year after year........Unlimited celebration and unrestrained hedonism is a consequence of industrialization and urbanization.
Years have been changing on earth for millions of years but the change in year was not associated with decadence, depravity, entertainment and pleasure chasing ..........This madness has existed for just 50 - 100 years.
For thousands of years before industrialization, new year was welcomed with prayer and worship not with decadence and depravity.
Industrial man is engaged in two main activities........Destruction and Celebration.
Agrarian society did not have Entertainment Industry, Music Industry, Film Industry, Tourism Industry, Fashion Industry, Restaurant and Food Industry, Alcohol and Drugs Industry..
Agrarian society did not have millions of pubs, bars, discos and parties.
Agrarian society did not produce millions of tonnes of alcohol.
Agrarian society did not produce thousands of tonnes of synthetic/ designer drugs.
Agrarian society did not have millions of prostitutes/ sex workers.
In agrarian society more than 99% of population was producing food.........All crazy activities happen when society does not produce food.........In industrial society 50% of world population is not producing food........That is why there is so much hedonism, decadence, depravity and pleasure chasing in industrial society.
The planet is dying and gasping for last breath but pleasure seeking hedonists don't even seem to notice because they are being continuously drugged by Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Music Industry, Film Industry, Tourism Industry, Fashion Industry, Restaurant and Food Industry, Alcohol and Drugs Industry.
Industrial society is destroying environment every moment and celebrating every moment of destruction.
Work Hard.....Play Hard.
Destroy Hard.....Enjoy Hard.
.
.
.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The reason it is not in jail is because the system is being run by urban population.
Man lived in hunter_gatherer society for one million years........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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emordnilap
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Hello, Sushilsushil_yadav wrote:Happy New Year to everyone.........Forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere destroyed........Millions of species tortured, slaughtered and decimated.........The planet littered with billions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and ewaste.........Happy New Year.
When we say happy new year, do we realize how happy the new years have been for nature after industrialization?..........Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years..........Happy New Year.
Destroy the planet whole year and then party on new year eve to welcome another year.........Repeat this year after year........Unlimited celebration and unrestrained hedonism is a consequence of industrialization and urbanization.
Years have been changing on earth for millions of years but the change in year was not associated with decadence, depravity, entertainment and pleasure chasing ..........This madness has existed for just 50 - 100 years.
For thousands of years before industrialization, new year was welcomed with prayer and worship not with decadence and depravity.
Industrial man is engaged in two main activities........Destruction and Celebration.
Agrarian society did not have Entertainment Industry, Music Industry, Film Industry, Tourism Industry, Fashion Industry, Restaurant and Food Industry, Alcohol and Drugs Industry..
Agrarian society did not have millions of pubs, bars, discos and parties.
Agrarian society did not produce millions of tonnes of alcohol.
Agrarian society did not produce thousands of tonnes of synthetic/ designer drugs.
Agrarian society did not have millions of prostitutes/ sex workers.
In agrarian society more than 99% of population was producing food.........All crazy activities happen when society does not produce food.........In industrial society 50% of world population is not producing food........That is why there is so much hedonism, decadence, depravity and pleasure chasing in industrial society.
The planet is dying and gasping for last breath but pleasure seeking hedonists don't even seem to notice because they are being continuously drugged by Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Music Industry, Film Industry, Tourism Industry, Fashion Industry, Restaurant and Food Industry, Alcohol and Drugs Industry.
Industrial society is destroying environment every moment and celebrating every moment of destruction.
Work Hard.....Play Hard.
Destroy Hard.....Enjoy Hard.
.
.
.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The reason it is not in jail is because the system is being run by urban population.
Man lived in hunter_gatherer society for one million years........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
The Ancient Pictish School of Thought is tempted to pick one or two wee holes in your argument, but chooses not to.
Instead it just says "*@*@ the metropolitans" [with a flying headbutt].
Give me a place to stand on and I will move the Earth.
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vtsnowedin
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