But did not all that bending do you good by keeping all the joints in working order? Not saying it didn't hurt a lot but most probably worth the pain, not even counting the veggies on the table.RenewableCandy wrote:It has to be admitted that, since starting on The Plot, I have grown to see a lot of the downsides of small-scale local ag., the main one being the effect on an imperfect 50-year olde frame of all that bloody bending!
So, I agree totally about the cerials/staples thingie. Little plots like mine are great for protein, vits and minerals, plus the odd spud. I'm assuming that the simple calories will come in from elsewhere.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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vtsnowedin
- Posts: 6595
- Joined: 07 Jan 2011, 22:14
- Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont
Sushil, I am nicking this and reposting on RedPilled. Would you pleas come and have a look at the site? Perhaps you would also like to post on there as well.sushil_yadav wrote:.
Industrial Society trying to save environment with money is like Fire Fighters trying to extinguish fire with petrol.
World Bank thinks rivers can be saved by giving million dollar loans.
Thousands of environmental organizations are pretending to save environment with their combined budgets of billions of dollars.
Height of Insanity!!!
Industrial Society is trying to save environment with money that has been accumulated by destroying environment.
First you kill environment for earning money, then you pretend to save environment with the money earned by killing environment..
This is like first killing a person with a gun and then trying to save him with the gun.
All money in Industrial Society is earned through some kind of Industrial Activity.
All money in Industrial Society is earned by killing animals, trees, air, water and land.....directly or indirectly.
All money in Industrial Society is earned by killing forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.....directly or indirectly.
All money in Industrial Society is blood money
All money in Industrial Society has blood of nature on it.
There are thousands of Environmental Organizations and NGO’s in this world....Their combined budget runs into billions of dollars.
All this money is coming from the very system that is destroying the ecosystems.....How can Environmental Organizations and NGO’s ever save environment when their Salaries/ Grants/ Funds and Donations are coming from Industrial Activity which is destroying the environment???
Environment cannot be saved by Environmental Organizations, NGO’s, Protests and Petitions.
For millions of years on earth, environment was not saved by Environmental Organizations, NGO’s, Protests or Petitions.
You cannot save a person after killing him.
You can only save him by not killing him.
You cannot save environment after killing it with Industrial Activity.
You can only save environment by not killing it with Industrial Activity.
Once you have killed a person, you cannot save him with any treatment....He is already gone.
Once you have killed environment with Industrial Activity, you cannot save it with anything....It is already gone.
Industrial Activity has destroyed environment in 100 years.
Absence of Industrial Activity saved environment for millions of years.
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Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
.
http://redpilled.net/
The Universe does Balance and Equilibrium - neither excess nor deficit
Perhaps humanity would have been wise to follow it's example
Perhaps humanity would have been wise to follow it's example
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sushil_yadav
- Posts: 189
- Joined: 23 Feb 2006, 14:21
- Location: Delhi , India
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One of the most ridiculous theories put forward to save environment is.....Keep a balance between industry and environment.
Where do these people get their degrees from.....The University of Lunacy???
Industry destroys environment.....It is impossible to keep a balance between industry and environment.
A house is on fire.....The fire fighters who rush to save the house are given this instruction.....You are expected to save the house but you are not allowed to put out the fire.....Keep a balance between fire and house.
A person is being shot repeatedly.....The police who rush to save the victim are given this instruction.....You are expected to save the victim but you are not allowed to stop the shooting.....Keep a balance between shooting and the victim's life.
100 years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.
What balance???
The term Sustainable Development is like the terms
Dark Sun.
Gentle Torture.
Dry Rain.
Peaceful War.
.
.
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.
.
.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
.
One of the most ridiculous theories put forward to save environment is.....Keep a balance between industry and environment.
Where do these people get their degrees from.....The University of Lunacy???
Industry destroys environment.....It is impossible to keep a balance between industry and environment.
A house is on fire.....The fire fighters who rush to save the house are given this instruction.....You are expected to save the house but you are not allowed to put out the fire.....Keep a balance between fire and house.
A person is being shot repeatedly.....The police who rush to save the victim are given this instruction.....You are expected to save the victim but you are not allowed to stop the shooting.....Keep a balance between shooting and the victim's life.
100 years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.
What balance???
The term Sustainable Development is like the terms
Dark Sun.
Gentle Torture.
Dry Rain.
Peaceful War.
.
.
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.
.
.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
.
Strange analogy as until recently most houses in the UK did just that; maintained a balance between there being a fire or two, controlled in a hearth or stove, and the house sustaining.sushil_yadav wrote:A house is on fire.....The fire fighters who rush to save the house are given this instruction.....You are expected to save the house but you are not allowed to put out the fire.....Keep a balance between fire and house.
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fifthcolumn
- Posts: 2525
- Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 14:07
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Little John
He did not say that. He simply made the observation that rural society is, when push comes to shove, materially self sustaining (at least in principle) whereas industrial society is not. To make the above observation is not to exhort the starving of cities. It is merely a logical observation based on the known facts on the ground. Whether sushil_yadav would like to see cities starved may or may not be the case. However, your assertion that his comment, to which you responded, implies that he would is simply not correct..fifthcolumn wrote:Couldn't have said it any clearer: starve the Cities.sushil_yadav wrote:
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
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sushil_yadav
- Posts: 189
- Joined: 23 Feb 2006, 14:21
- Location: Delhi , India
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Trying to save environment not by stopping industry but by running industry with green energy is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by shooting him with a green gun.
(Green Gun = Gun manufactured using green energy)
Alternative energy does not save environment in industrial society.
Alternative energy cannot save environment in industrial society.
Nothing can save environment in industrial society.
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The machines and equipment needed to produce green energy don't come into existence without environmental destruction......The wind turbines and solar batteries are made up of metals, minerals and plastic whose production by industrial activity destroys huge amounts of environment.....It requires mining industry, manufacturing industry, transportation industry.
First we destroy environment to manufacture the machines and equipment needed to produce green energy...... The electricity generated by the so called renewable/ alternative energy sources is then used to produce and operate thousands of consumer goods and services whose production by industrial activity destroys environment.......So we are back to square one.
There is no point in trying to run the consumerist industrial system with renewable/ alternative energy.......It would be as harmful and destructive as that being run by fossil fuel.
.
.
The claim that clean energy can save environment is just like the claim that recycling can save environment.
Industrial Society trying to save environment, not by stopping production of consumer goods but by recycling consumer goods is like the Gunman trying to save victims of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by shooting them with recycled guns and bullets.
Industrial Society has been coming up with ridiculous solutions for saving environment.
Green Industry..... Green Technology..... Sustainable Development.
All these are oxymorons.
No industry can be green.....No technology can be green.....No development can be sustainable.
Coming back to recycling :
Every Industrial Activity destroys environment.
Recycling Industry also destroys environment because recycling requires Industrial Activity.
First you destroy environment to make consumer goods.
Then you destroy more environment every time you recycle consumer goods.
So where is the saving of environment???
Environment is saved when you don't make consumer goods.
That is how environment was saved for millions of years on earth before industrialization.
.
.
.
It is not the fuel that destroys environment......It is what you use the fuel for that destroys environment.
If man had limited his activity to food, clothing and shelter then no fossil fuel would have destroyed environment.
Today man is using fuel to destroy environment for producing food, clothing, shelter and thousands of consumer goods and services, as a consequence of which no fuel can save environment.
.
.
.
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.
.
.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
.
.
Trying to save environment not by stopping industry but by running industry with green energy is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by shooting him with a green gun.
(Green Gun = Gun manufactured using green energy)
Alternative energy does not save environment in industrial society.
Alternative energy cannot save environment in industrial society.
Nothing can save environment in industrial society.
.
.
The machines and equipment needed to produce green energy don't come into existence without environmental destruction......The wind turbines and solar batteries are made up of metals, minerals and plastic whose production by industrial activity destroys huge amounts of environment.....It requires mining industry, manufacturing industry, transportation industry.
First we destroy environment to manufacture the machines and equipment needed to produce green energy...... The electricity generated by the so called renewable/ alternative energy sources is then used to produce and operate thousands of consumer goods and services whose production by industrial activity destroys environment.......So we are back to square one.
There is no point in trying to run the consumerist industrial system with renewable/ alternative energy.......It would be as harmful and destructive as that being run by fossil fuel.
.
.
The claim that clean energy can save environment is just like the claim that recycling can save environment.
Industrial Society trying to save environment, not by stopping production of consumer goods but by recycling consumer goods is like the Gunman trying to save victims of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by shooting them with recycled guns and bullets.
Industrial Society has been coming up with ridiculous solutions for saving environment.
Green Industry..... Green Technology..... Sustainable Development.
All these are oxymorons.
No industry can be green.....No technology can be green.....No development can be sustainable.
Coming back to recycling :
Every Industrial Activity destroys environment.
Recycling Industry also destroys environment because recycling requires Industrial Activity.
First you destroy environment to make consumer goods.
Then you destroy more environment every time you recycle consumer goods.
So where is the saving of environment???
Environment is saved when you don't make consumer goods.
That is how environment was saved for millions of years on earth before industrialization.
.
.
.
It is not the fuel that destroys environment......It is what you use the fuel for that destroys environment.
If man had limited his activity to food, clothing and shelter then no fossil fuel would have destroyed environment.
Today man is using fuel to destroy environment for producing food, clothing, shelter and thousands of consumer goods and services, as a consequence of which no fuel can save environment.
.
.
.
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.
.
.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
.
.
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RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
I was taught that, in business, when you send someone an email (or any type of communication actually), think first and foremost of what you want the recipient to *do* as a result. Not to do so is a waste of the recipient's time if you want to be polite (people in business are always assumed to be short of time: a pretty accurate assumpton imho).
PS isn't a business but we do at least want posts that are informative or, failing that, vaguely entertaining.
Failing all 3 of the above, at least they should be brief...
PS isn't a business but we do at least want posts that are informative or, failing that, vaguely entertaining.
Failing all 3 of the above, at least they should be brief...
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Snail
Yes, but sushil yadav doesn't want 'to do'. Because 'doing' just adds to the destruction already taking place. Doing, no matter what the doing consists of, is an addition. He/she wants less, not more. I think sushil has a point, and by continually wanting realistic answers/advice/plans is missing his point. That's how I've always seen his messages.
Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that feeling bleak/not bleak doesn't change the fact that there are no answers.
Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that feeling bleak/not bleak doesn't change the fact that there are no answers.
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Snail
I hadn't thought of it this way.... makes sense.... but what is the point of Sushil posting if he doesn't want some outcome? For an outcome to occur, one must do (something)....Snail wrote:Yes, but sushil yadav doesn't want 'to do'. Because 'doing' just adds to the destruction already taking place. Doing, no matter what the doing consists of, is an addition. He/she wants less, not more. I think sushil has a point, and by continually wanting realistic answers/advice/plans is missing his point. That's how I've always seen his messages.
Real money is gold and silver
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Snail
If sushil wants an outcome, then it's a deindustrialised society. And to get to that stage involves not doing stuff. Doing, making, even thinking less.
How to increase 'not doing'? I'm not sure if Sushil is interested in the how, or sees it as impossible and so not worth thinking about it. Or has decided to just focus on the message. Maybe he'll clarify things.
The message is powerful by itself in any case.
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I've been rereading some of his posts and him blaming Western civilisation for industry and its damaging effects.
I remember reading an artical in a haiku journal about a possible reason why Eastern art is so different than western: eastern leaves gaps and silences (like a haiku or jap. painting). It leaves things unsaid. While the varrying european cultures were taken over by a dominant Roman/greek meme, which destroyed other european ways of looking at the world. So western art and music (and ideas?) tend to be detailed and realistic, with science and philosophy being much more de-linked. Maybe an explanation for the route of European science and sushil yadav's form of posting.
How to increase 'not doing'? I'm not sure if Sushil is interested in the how, or sees it as impossible and so not worth thinking about it. Or has decided to just focus on the message. Maybe he'll clarify things.
The message is powerful by itself in any case.
---
I've been rereading some of his posts and him blaming Western civilisation for industry and its damaging effects.
I remember reading an artical in a haiku journal about a possible reason why Eastern art is so different than western: eastern leaves gaps and silences (like a haiku or jap. painting). It leaves things unsaid. While the varrying european cultures were taken over by a dominant Roman/greek meme, which destroyed other european ways of looking at the world. So western art and music (and ideas?) tend to be detailed and realistic, with science and philosophy being much more de-linked. Maybe an explanation for the route of European science and sushil yadav's form of posting.
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RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
Well yes but don't you think his posts are a bit of an insult to the classic Asian minimalist understated style though? Not only are they very long, they're also rather shouty and hectoring. The disjoint between what he is obviously so desperate to say, and the way he actually says it, is so huge it's painful.
I mean, if I wanted to say the same sort of thing, I'd put it in the form of a series of little episodes from real life (my own or others') that illustrate my point...
I mean, if I wanted to say the same sort of thing, I'd put it in the form of a series of little episodes from real life (my own or others') that illustrate my point...