Would you go back to university?

Atman · Post by **Atman** » 05 Jan 2014, 16:23

I think we're on the same page regarding resource constraints, climate change and peak oil plus all the other doom which makes the conversation easier as my question concerns the future and my place in it. To be quick. What are your opinions on incurring student loan debt? I'm talking in the region of £10,000 or more. In 2014, when the world in hanging by it's fingernails it seems. The current student loan company structure only requires repayment once >£21,000/year is earned as income. How would you make the decision? What factors would you consider? What career prospects are there in the next 40 years? We live in such interesting times that the future is more uncertain than it ever has been in human history in my estimation.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jan 2014, 16:47

Atman wrote:I think we're on the same page regarding resource constraints, climate change and peak oil plus all the other doom which makes the conversation easier as my question concerns the future and my place in it. To be quick. What are your opinions on incurring student loan debt? I'm talking in the region of £10,000 or more. In 2014, when the world in hanging by it's fingernails it seems. The current student loan company structure only requires repayment once >£21,000/year is earned as income. How would you make the decision? What factors would you consider? What career prospects are their in the next 40 years? We live in such interesting times that the future is more uncertain that it ever has been in human history imo.

Good question Atman. My two sons are in precisely your position. That is to say, they are in their first year of uni and, by the end of it, are likely to be 40+ K in debt each when their student loans plus their tuition fees are all added up. It's scaring the bloody hell out of me. But, my son's are far more sanguine about it. They just say that everyone is having to incur that debt and so they are no more disadvantaged than the majority of their peers. But, that they will be disadvantaged if they don't have a degree. As for paying it back, they have both indicated that they will be looking to work abroad if they can and so hope to escape the clutches of the men from the ministry. I'm not so sure that'll be possible. But, I think they have the right attitude. At the end of the day, you've just got to say "F--k it" and go for it.

Good luck to you mate.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 05 Jan 2014, 18:48

If the qualification you're after increases your likelihood of getting a reasonably well-paying job, and only £10k of debt, then I'd say it's definitely worth it. You'll likely be able to pay it all off before HMG/SLC start changing the rules about repayment (which, jammy b***ers, they are entitled to do).

boisdevie · Post by **boisdevie** » 05 Jan 2014, 19:24

I wouldn't go back to university. I've already been once and 3 years of dope smoking and listening to non-stop Pink Floyd and Nick Drake is enough.

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 05 Jan 2014, 19:49

I'm finishing an OU degree this year - just for kicks. Course fees were held at affordable rates for current students, built on a dubious management diploma, restarted in 2010 with a course on Energy. Since done psychology, diabetes management, personal finance, which hardened my attitude to banker 'misselling' (fraud) , final course is globalisation.

Even with recently hiked fees, an OU degree course works out at about half residential uni price and being p/t, also allows for some McJob to pay for it, perhaps zero debt on graduation.

However, Pink Floyd appreciation remains mandatory. To achieve credibility, actual playing is now required. Check out this lesson.

Get a good job with more pay and you're OK...

www.frethub.com/?works=pink-floyd-money

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 05 Jan 2014, 20:02

I'm in favour of education, but it should not be limited to the very worthy Pink floyd and Nick Drake, yet should not be constrained by vocational motivations and the idea of getting a better paid job. If that happens, fine, but don't let it be the prime motivation.

The potential debt should not be an issue. You don't have to pay it unless you earn more than £21000 per year, which is more than enough to get by on so the debt repayments are either easily affordable or non-payable.

I would always advise a non-vocational course - so philosophy rather than golf course maintenance. Or science.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 05 Jan 2014, 20:40

biffvernon wrote: The potential debt should not be an issue. You don't have to pay it unless you earn more than £21000 per year, which is more than enough to get by on so the debt repayments are either easily affordable or non-payable.

...at the moment, til they change the conditions. Or, with high inflation, they won't have to.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 05 Jan 2014, 20:59

What course are you looking to do, Atman?

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 05 Jan 2014, 21:14

He's doing The Psychology of Pink Floyd. There's enough material in there for an entire conference...

Atman · Post by **Atman** » 05 Jan 2014, 22:12

Tarrel:
Mathematics and Physics.

Renewable Candy:
Inflation or deflation? No-one knows. I've seen convincing arguments for deflation from http://www.theautomaticearth.com/ and many arguments for inflation from other sources. Will it matter to me? I'd be happy enough with £21,000/year that I couldn't care if the SLC took everything above that.

Biffvernon: "The potential debt should not be an issue. You don't have to pay it unless you earn more than £21000 per year, which is more than enough to get by on so the debt repayments are either easily affordable or non-payable. "

Here is the repayment amounts:
http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/p ... ema=PORTAL

I'm very tempted to do it but there is a. the money b. the economy and c. the enemy, me. If I man up I'd get a good grade. If I don't man my most likely trajectory is cleaning for the next 40 years,cancer and death. Depends how long the economy and environment can hold on haha.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 05 Jan 2014, 22:14

Oh well given that it's maths and Physics

there's only one answer:

DO IT.

Ask questions afterwards.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 05 Jan 2014, 22:18

Absolutely. If you think you are able to do maths and physics you will be able to think your way through the flocks of black swans that greet you in the future.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 05 Jan 2014, 22:18

RenewableCandy wrote:Oh well given that it's maths and Physics there's only one answer:

DO IT.

Ask questions afterwards.

+1. But expect it to be tough.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 Jan 2014, 22:19

stevecook172001 wrote:It's scaring the bloody hell out of me. But, my son's are far more sanguine about it. They just say that everyone is having to incur that debt and so they are no more disadvantaged than the majority of their peers. But, that they will be disadvantaged if they don't have a degree.

I have heard something similar from many people of that age, and I think it is a very serious mistake. It is the "herd instinct" writ large. Surely, if "everybody else" is doing it, it couldn't possibly be a major mistake, could it? Hundreds of thousands of people can't have got it completely wrong, could they? Well, yes they could.

The first two or three years of students faced with £9K per year of fees (on top of all the other debt) were also faced with a terrible choice. I would be the last to underestimate the value of going to university, having done it as a mature student aged 34, and having enjoyed it immensely even though it was completely worthless in terms of future employment. It is hard to put a price on that. And it must have seemed almost impossible, having watched people just a year older getting all that for £20K less over the three years, to decide that it just wasn't worth it anymore. But how many 18 year olds are really capable of making decisions like that responsibly?? Most of them don't even know what they should be studying at that age. They aren't really thinking about long-term consequences, certainly not if it means making a sacrifice as big as not going to university in a culture where "everybody" has been doing it for the last couple of decades.

I think it is going to take about 5, maybe 10 years, before the youngsters coming through start hearing the nightmare stories of the first lot of students to leave university averaging £50K in debt with house prices even more insane than they are now. Quite frankly I think these people, unless they are studying something which is really going to result in a seriously good income, are making a life-compromising mistake. I think that many of them are going to spend the rest of their lives wishing they had not gone to university, and probably complaining bitterly that they were not sufficiently warned at the time by people who should have been able to warn them.

At the end of the day, you've just got to say "**** it" and go for it.

You haven't got to, no. I do understand why people are making the choices they are, but I think it is a mistake in many cases.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 Jan 2014, 22:25

biffvernon wrote:I'm in favour of education, but it should not be limited to the very worthy Pink floyd and Nick Drake, yet should not be constrained by vocational motivations and the idea of getting a better paid job.

La la la la la la la la la la la la la la land...

"should not"? Yep, and humans "should not" have to live in poverty and...this has nothing to do with reality, Biff. As usual.

so philosophy rather than golf course maintenance

Oh boy. Yes, go and study philosophy and come out of your degree with job prospects no better than you had before you went in, but £50K in debt before you can start saving for a house deposit or a pension, and three years later in your life than somebody who did not spend three years studying something incredibly interesting and valuable from a personal development POV but utterly useless for getting a job!!!

I hope very much you are not in a position to actually mess up any young people's lives with your totally-detached-from-reality advice.

PowerSwitch

Would you go back to university?

Would you go back to university?

Re: Would you go back to university?

Re: Would you go back to university?