Tesco UK sales decline 1.5%

[emordnilap]

Cooking can be addictive too. There are two days each week where, because of work hours, I make the same basic meal and we both really enjoy those meals - because each week I vary the ingredients ever so slightly, so it's always a 'surprise'.

[biffvernon]

£10 a week sounds very low - a product of industrial pharming. I very much doubt you can buy sufficient nutrients for so little and you're probably turning yourself into a toxic repository.

It may not be easy but I know folk who have done it. I live within walking distance of a farm shop where one can buy sacks of potatoes, carrots, onions, cabbages etc. Harder in a city but basic veg aren't much dearer in central London. Bulk deliveries of dry beans, pearl barley, lentils etc. can add up to a pretty nutritious diet. Window boxes for herbs. Allotments used to be for people without gardens to grow their own food but are now more for fun than necessity. But yes, £10 is low, especially if you want meat. Pheasants are £3 each in my local town at the moment, as much as a pint of beer.

[emordnilap]

But yes, £10 is low, especially if you want meat.

Ah yes. That's the problem other people think they have. If they really insist on meat, then it should be 10% or less of a meal, especially if they haven't much money.

[eyeswide]

But yes, £10 is low, especially if you want meat.

Ah yes. That's the problem other people think they have. If they really insist on meat, then it should be 10% or less of a meal, especially if they haven't much money.

As a near-vegetarian about to move in with a committed carnivore, I foresee a few conversations on this theme ahead.

[RenewableCandy]

£10 a week sounds very low - a product of industrial pharming. I very much doubt you can buy sufficient nutrients for so little and you're probably turning yourself into a toxic repository.

It may not be easy but I know folk who have done it. I live within walking distance of a farm shop where one can buy sacks of potatoes, carrots, onions, cabbages etc. Harder in a city but basic veg aren't much dearer in central London. Bulk deliveries of dry beans, pearl barley, lentils etc. can add up to a pretty nutritious diet. Window boxes for herbs. Allotments used to be for people without gardens to grow their own food but are now more for fun than necessity. But yes, £10 is low, especially if you want meat. Pheasants are £3 each in my local town at the moment, as much as a pint of beer.

1. Congratulations, you live near a farm shop. Most people don't.
2. Congratulations, you have an allotment (well, land in your case but still..). Most people don't.
3. The people being talked about here can't order bulk deliveries because, hey, that'd use up their entire week's food budget, so they'd be rather ill be the time the nice chap from Suma drops off the sacks of pulses.
4. And finally, you haven't had to resort to a food bank. Food banks don't give out perishables. Congratufeckinglations.

You (and I) have means of production. Part (I would say the major part) of the definition of "poor" is the lack of such means, rather than just the lack of income. Hell, a lot of poor people don't even have access to a kitchen! As in, a cooker that works, and a fridge that isn't shared by people who, erm, "just borrow" things.

So, when discussing people who find themselves in, for example, Jack Munro's situation, the assertion that one can in theory eat healthily on £10 a week goes straight into the "true, but irrelevant" bucket.

[eyeswide]

You (and I) have means of production. Part (I would say the major part) of the definition of "poor" is the lack of such means, rather than just the lack of income. Hell, a lot of poor people don't even have access to a wearedodgy! As in, a cooker that works, and a fridge that isn't shared by people who, erm, "just borrow" things.

Yes, and time. It takes time to cook, especially if you're learning from scratch, and time is often a luxury you don't have if you're poor. It takes even more time to grow things, if you can get an allotment.

There's a 2,000-person waiting list for allotments in Brighton, and even that's not representative as the waiting lists for several areas have been closed because adding more names would simply be pointless.

[extractorfan]

There are allotments round here, about a 1 yr wait and plenty of people with time, and cookers.

Don't mean to sound like a daily mail reader, it's just what I see. I know it's not the same everywhere.

[biffvernon]

I would say the major part of the definition of "poor" is the lack of such means, rather than just the lack of income.

Yes, that is absolutely the central point. There's all this shouting about the poor don't have enough money when really it's that (some of) the poor don't have the other stuff, material and knowledge, to live well with little money.

The transition to a new, sustainable, economy, involves folk learning to live well with less of the stuff that forms the current basis of GNP.

[clv101]

£10 a week sounds very low - a product of industrial pharming. I very much doubt you can buy sufficient nutrients for so little and you're probably turning yourself into a toxic repository.

My partner and I, over the last year, have averaged just under £21 per week, per person on all food and drink. That's buying bulk from Essential Trading all the dry (flour, rice, bulgar, lentil, nuts...), most tins (beans, chickpeas...), local green grocers for fruit and veg, local milkman for milk... and yes, the supermarket for cheese, yogurt, eggs... We don't tend to eat any meat at home. Milk, eggs, most dried, flour, butter pretty much always organic. We also have a very productive allotment, around two thirds of our evening meals over the year contain something from the allotment (potatoes, squash, parsnips, carrots, cabbage, beans, artichokes...).

The figure is skewed high by the meals out - mostly associated with 3rd parties (work, friends, parties etc.). It's always a bit annoying to blow a whole weeks 'domestic' food budget on one meal out!

Basically, even good food can be incredibly cheap, circa £1000 per person for a whole year. However, many people are in situations that see them spending £5 on weekday lunch alone (over £1000!) and another few hundred on takeout tea/coffee - before you even think about alcohol! The problem isn't expensive food - in the UK we have some of the cheapest in Europe.

[biffvernon]

I think only USA and Canada spend less of their money on food than Britain. Everywhere else spends a greater proportion.

[Tarrel]

Ir would be interesting to relate this to a self-sufficiency situation. For example, say someone puts in a fifty hour work week (including travel) and spends, say, 10% of their income on food, that equates to spending five hours a week on "food procurement". How much time would one have to put in in you were producing all your own food? I suspect more than five hours a week.

Same thing goes for energy production. How much time does it take to produce a household's firewood, and how would this compare to the percentage of a work-week spent on paying for elec/gas/oil.

For example, it takes me around half a day (5 hrs) to cut and split the 200-odd kg of logs we use in a week in mid winter. That's roughly 600kWh. I should add in maybe that same amount of time again to cover restoration and replanting of the trees.At a living wage of, say, £8.00 an hour, that equates to £80 of manual labour. To buy 600kWH of electricity would cost me £90.

So, it looks like energy is reasonably priced to buy compared to the human labour of procuring it, but food is relatively cheap. (this assumes the wood is free / scavenged / home grown).

[woodburner]

For example, it takes me around half a day (5 hrs) to cut and split the 200-odd kg of logs we use in a week in mid winter.

Wow!! you need a rocket mass heater, or a masonry stove. That Rayburn sounds greedy.

[Tarrel]

For example, it takes me around half a day (5 hrs) to cut and split the 200-odd kg of logs we use in a week in mid winter.

Wow!! you need a rocket mass heater, or a masonry stove. That Rayburn sounds greedy.

Yes, on the face of it. But it provides space heating to the kitchen, central heating rads, hot water, kettle, hotplate and oven. Plus we dry clothes and boots on it, consume junk mail in it, and it's handy for the dog to sit in front of.

And it's a British design icon which looks cool

And I quite like the name

And...Oh, you wouldn't understand!

[woodburner]

The Rayburn's fuel consumption is typical of the disadvantage of having a single machine trying to provide two conflicting services. For water heating low temperatures are needed,while for cooking, high temperatures are needed.

I understand the appeal of the solid fuel Rayburn, they make rooms homely, but they do use comparitively large amounts of fuel to do it. While you are young(ish) and fit, 400lb+ a week is do-able. Things will change as age catches up.

[vtsnowedin]

[ Hell, a lot of poor people don't even have access to a wearedodgy! As in, a cooker that works, and a fridge that isn't shared by people who, erm, "just borrow" things.

.

Different country of course but I don't know anybody, And I know quite a few people that are considered poor by most metrics, that doesn't have a cook stove that works and at least a dorm sized fridge to keep the beer and butter in. Problem is that some of them have no clue what to buy on a limited food budget or how to cook it once they get it home. People complaining of hunger when they run out of hot pockets and pop tarts.
Think about it RC. What would you buy if you had just £10. and the stores etc. within say two miles of the Chateau Renewable? It is an interesting problem and a little practice at it might be a good prep for the future.