EU immigration row / time to get out

[biffvernon]

but don't forget that people generate jobs as well as taking them up

That's important.

[biffvernon]

Yes, aliens or greater threat from outside might do it... maybe climate change, resource depletion etc. might be that external threat?

Not sure that climate change is 'from the outside' but yes, this is not only the thing that might do it, it's the thing that needs to do it. I think we should all be striving to ensure this over the coming two years to COP21 in Paris. Pretty much everything else on the political agenda pales into irrelevance besides this task.

[UndercoverElephant]

The trend from the first living cell, to tribes, to city states to nation states etc. is clear. The fighting 'unit' is getting larger. The EU is the latest example. Is it possible, that one day, the whole world will basically fight as one?

Only if hostile aliens turn up.

If York and Lancaster, France and England, can settle their differences, why not everyone?

Because the settling of differences only ever took place in the face of greater threats from outside. The Highland clans only stopped fighting with each other when faced with the threat of the English and the lowland Scots bent on dominating all of them.

Yes, aliens or greater threat from outside might do it... maybe climate change, resource depletion etc. might be that external threat?

I don't think so. Humans can't understand climate change and resource depletion as "external threats" in the same sort of way. Resource depletion is the easier example, because for the whole of human history this has been a threat on a local level and the response was usually localised warfare - the exact opposite of co-operation. Obviously warfare can't even look like a solution to climate change in the same way, but then I don't think the majority of humans, either as individuals or groups, can get their heads around this sort of threat, because it goes against everything in both our evolved psychology and cultural heritage. The true threat here is our own success - our own capacity to dominate the rest of the natural world - and this is not like any other threat humans have ever had to face. We are entirely unprepared for it, and judging by the response so far, entirely incapable of responding to it in a meaningful way. Our response is either to deny it exists at all, or to suggest actions which obviously aren't going to solve the problem (e.g. "sustainable growth"), or to give up.

[biffvernon]

Resource depletion has, in the past, always been a local rather than global problem.

[jonny2mad]

Resource depletion has, in the past, always been a local rather than global problem.

I dont think that would make much difference, if you think of the inhabitants of easter island it would have seemed like the entire world when their island went into overshoot and die-off

The answer then was inter tribal conflict and its likely to be the same answer now

[biffvernon]

Indeed. Global warming is much more important than resource depletion.

Except that global action on global warming could trigger an energy depletion crisis independant of geology.

[Totally_Baffled]

Chris

Reference your numbers of British born migrants living in the EU vs EU migrants in the UK, yes they are quite close (the latter is circa 300k higher)

However I think you didnt mention that EU migration has increased to 106k per annum (net) even prior to the Romania/Bulgaria issue. Total net migration into the UK is 182k

So the gap us going to get wider very quickly.....

[biffvernon]

Good to see that Laure Prouvost, an immigrant from France, has won the Turner Prize, honouring the memory of Kurt Schwitters, another immigrant, from Germany. Our culture is enriched.

[extractorfan]

Erm...She's got Fish on her head.

[biffvernon]

OMG So she has!

[jonny2mad]

yes she does

[Tarrel]

Here we go, carping on again.

Mind you, the debate was floundering a bit.

[UndercoverElephant]

Good to see that Laure Prouvost, an immigrant from France, has won the Turner Prize, honouring the memory of Kurt Schwitters, another immigrant, from Germany. Our culture is enriched.

Sorry Biff, but the "cultural enrichment" associated with the arrival of up to 1 million new immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania does NOT make up for all the drawbacks of those people arriving.

You know this to be the case, so why are you still making provocative posts? Or do you still not understand why what you are posting is provocative?

[Tarrel]

Good to see that Laure Prouvost, an immigrant from France, has won the Turner Prize, honouring the memory of Kurt Schwitters, another immigrant, from Germany. Our culture is enriched.

Sorry Biff, but the "cultural enrichment" associated with the arrival of up to 1 million new immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania does NOT make up for all the drawbacks of those people arriving.

You know this to be the case, so why are you still making provocative posts? Or do you still not understand why what you are posting is provocative?

I assumed the intention was to be ironic. After all, I'm not sure how a woman with fish on her head enriches us culturally. But that's just my opinion.

[extractorfan]

I think people with fish on their head should be barred from winning prizes. Immigrants or not.