Wood / Solid fuel burning stoves

What changes can we make to our lives to deal with the economic and energy crises ahead? Have you already started making preparations? Got tips to share?

Moderator: Peak Moderation

Post Reply
MisterE
Posts: 766
Joined: 09 Jul 2006, 19:00

Post by MisterE »

Kenneal is spot on, good advice.

Basically your wall thickness should be 225mm, if its less fireboard it and tile the fire board so that it doesn?t look nasty :-). So you do not need the fireboard if your walls are 225mm. Remember to keep 100mm all around the stove and the material behind is not combustible. The further back you put the stove the less heat will come into the room, which sometimes is more desirable. The more forward it is, then the warmer it is. To the ceiling you can use combustible material providing it is 450mm above the stove ie a wooden sleeper. I sealed my ceil then with stainless steel two battens and plaster board. Then when I get some fire board from site I'm going to add that. But as my ceiling is high in the fireplace its no problem. The measurements regarding stoves are massively over spec too. You could hold tissue paper 100mm from a stove and you will not get it to ignite. At worst the flue could ignite my plasterboard paper, hence fire board is better :-)

Returning to insulation, remember you may wish to let the brickwork heat up. I do as this takes ages to lose all its heat after the fire is out. It acts like a heatsink and provides heat back into the room after the fire is out. A good example of this is a cold morning but warm day so you light it early and then let the fire go out, but the fire opening stays toasty :-) Mind you I got good underfloor insulation, walls and loft and it does make a big difference :-)

Regarding a flue liner chances are you need one. Is the chimney internal ie is it on an external wall or a party wall on a semi detached. What size are the pot liners? If they are 225 or bigger then I?d put a liner in and fill the outer void with mica fill. Liner will cost you ?30 per meter, and mica ?7 a sack you?ll need 3 sacks. Easy as hell to put in your set up. But you could run it for a year and see how it goes then put a liner in if you got lots of build up in the chimney.

Basically you need to keep the gasses as hot as possible going up and out of the flue, so the wider the opening the colder the gas will get, it will slow and condense more and build up on the liners. But don?t panic about it, like I said you could try one season first. I just like to do things all in one hit so I don?t have to go back to it later.

My chimney is internal on a shared semi 225mm wall. Built with class 1 engineering bricks and has a 240mm square run with a very slow small bend. In fact its perfect, but I still put a 170mm (very tight) flue in and mica fill. So its something to think about. If in doubt up some piccies and we?ll look at it :-)
snow hope
Posts: 4101
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

Post by snow hope »

Thanks a million guys - that is great advice - much appreciated! :D

House built in 1975 with cavity walls and cavity insulation done 10 years ago with rockwool. Chimney is on an external wall and on the outside of the house - I assume it also has a cavity? So looks like I don't need the Fireboard all the way around. The chimney opening is large at the throat - where I am putting the new Fireboard and it steps inwards as it goes up to the pot liners which start at about 8ft from floor level. Will measure the pot liners later. From top of stove to new (wooden) fire surround will be 300mm - bit less than the recommended 450mm....

I am away outside with a torch to see if I can still see the drill holes which were roughly recemented after the cavity wall insulation was done - if I can see these in the chimney breast then it should be confirmation of a cavity..... cheap skaters didn't do my chimney! But I am pretty sure it has a cavity as it is protrudes outside by 450mm and inside by 450mm.
Real money is gold and silver
snow hope
Posts: 4101
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

Post by snow hope »

Update - pot liners don't start until about 8 ft up above the base of the fire - they are 8" diameter. Purchasing 6 ft of 6" diameter vitrious enamel flue to go into the pot liners a few inches - will seal with a one inch fire-rope at the top and usual fire cement at stove end. Fitting 6mm fireboard at back, sides and top of inglenook. Then I am going to get a plasterer to cover it all in about half an inch of sand/cement mix - with a nice rough cast finish which will be painted a lightish colour. Plastering to come flat with main facing wall giving a very clean-effect. Thick black slates/tiles to be put on the hearth. :) Reclaimed wood to be acquired for suspended mantlepiece.

We will add a fireplace and further side wall and back wall tiles in the future if we want them. Also fire surround if we want it. But minimalist effect at the start. :) Will post a piccy in a couple of weeks when I manage to get it all complete. (Have been told that you only need a 2inch gap at the back of the fire.)
Real money is gold and silver
MisterE
Posts: 766
Joined: 09 Jul 2006, 19:00

Post by MisterE »

Sounds nice cant wait to see a piccy. I've been working away for a month solid - missed my fire. Will get my piccies up soon :-)
User avatar
Andy Hunt
Posts: 6760
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Bury, Lancashire, UK

Post by Andy Hunt »

Here's a recent piccy of ours:

Image

We're toasty warm at the minute, got a delivery of logs coming in tomorrow. Strange to think we're keeping warm and getting rid of someone's waste logs which would just be going into landfill otherwise!

:D
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth. :roll:
User avatar
LastDrop
Posts: 64
Joined: 02 Jun 2006, 10:18

Post by LastDrop »

I'm trying to get one of the little Clearview stoves installed. Out of interest what sort of price range should I expect for the installation? How long do installs take?
snow hope
Posts: 4101
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

Post by snow hope »

How long is a piece of string Lastdrop? :)

It all depends on your current set-up really. Are you replacing an open fire in an existing chimney? If so then you are likely to have an open throat chimney that will require about 6 or 8 feet of flue from the new Clearview to the pot liners. Presumably you will need a new fireboard at the top (roof) of the fireplace through which your flue will fit. I assume you are keeping your existing fireplace and hearth? The fire will need to be commissioned and smoke tested I would imagine.

If any of the above assumptions are incorrect, then add more time. If everything goes smoothly and the assumptions above are correct, I would imagine the job can be completed in a day - say ?400 of time and maybe ?100 materials?

I am no expert, but just trying to guestimate. I did most of the job myself, but got a guy into re-plaster where the old fireplace surround was taken away and to cover the inglenook into which I had covered all side with new fireboard. I also got a guy in to tile my hearth with new slate tiles - ones that don't need annual polishing.

I paid ?180 + VAT for the re-plastering including materials. ?50 incl VAT for the new tiling. ?60 incl VAT for the Tiles. ?25 for 4mm Fireboard 8ft x 4ft. ?60 incl VAT for 2x3ft of vitrous enamel flue. 4 coats of paint - ?17 from B&Q (did some other walls as well). ?60 for mantlepiece (reprocessed Canadian Pine) from local wood merchant (used in pallets for goods from Canada). ?20 for wirewool and coloured Beeswax from B&Q for finishing mantlepiece. I would say it took me about 3-4 days in time in total, from extracting old openfire, diagonal side walls, fitting new fireboard and flue, installing new stove, staining and fitting new mantlepiece, painting, etc. I

am very pleased and recommend that anybody doing this gets a flat-top stove so that if needs be you can boil a pan of water and cook a pan of potatoes and/or other food - just in case....... I like to try and cover all bases! ;) :)

Hope this helps.
Real money is gold and silver
User avatar
LastDrop
Posts: 64
Joined: 02 Jun 2006, 10:18

Post by LastDrop »

Thanks Snowhope (and my apologies for being so vague).

Yes, there's already a fireplace there with a fake electric stove in it. I guess the chimney needs sweeping and a flue liner dropping down (although different people tell me different things).

Thanks for the advice about the flat top stove, I'll definitely get a flat-top just in case (and see if I can hunt out a nice flat-bottomed kettle too!). :D
snow hope
Posts: 4101
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

Post by snow hope »

I investigated flue liners, etc. as they are rather expensive. If your house was built after 1965 approx. then it should have pot liners in the chimney. If it has pot liners then you don't need a flue liner unless a smoke test shows you have chimney leakage (do you have a room above the room with the fire?)

In my case I was fine and I just needed 6ft of black enamelled flue (make sure you get the right size for the stove and for fitting into your pot liners - you may need a reducer at the pot liner end) to go from my stove into the pot liners. I used some thick firerope to seal the join to the pot liner.

I understand that you must not just have a short flue going into an open fire throat which then narrows up into the chimney proper. I think this is because there will not be enough draw from the stove.

If you find where to buy a suitable kettle, let me know as I am looking for one too.

Another advantage of having a stove is that it blocks up that big open funnel from your sitting room into the outside world that sucks all your central heating warmth created in your house to the outside!!! That used to annoy me but not anymore. :D
Real money is gold and silver
User avatar
LastDrop
Posts: 64
Joined: 02 Jun 2006, 10:18

Post by LastDrop »

Unfortunately my house was built in 1900 so the installer reckoned I would need a liner which came to about 400 quid! The installation quote was <gulp> 1600quid of which 400quid was labour and the rest was materials (vermiculite, liners, brackets and plates). Ouch!

The stove (which is only a tiddler) is another 1000quid+ on top of that!

I'm a bit out of my depth on this kind of work. Does this sound like a reasonable quote?
User avatar
Silas
Posts: 204
Joined: 18 Oct 2006, 12:25
Location: East Anglia

Post by Silas »

Hi LastDrop

We had the same job done 5 yrs ago, Our small 'Villager' woodburner was ?750 and then the register plate and chimney liner kit was ?1200 plus ?300 for the labour, so with inflation your qoute isnt too far adrift, but do get
at least 3 qoutes, if you havent already, hope that helps good luck
User avatar
SunnyJim
Posts: 2915
Joined: 24 Jan 2007, 10:07

Post by SunnyJim »

Here's our aarrow ecoburn 7Kw stove installed. Cost ?1250 for stove, liner and fitting. Hearth was all ready for them. It's been a great fire so far.

Image
User avatar
Andy Hunt
Posts: 6760
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Bury, Lancashire, UK

Post by Andy Hunt »

That's a lovely little stove.

I see you've gone for the top flue. I was kicking myself after getting my Morso installed, it had a back flue option and if I had taken that it would have left the whole of the top free for cooking.

As it is, there is still a fair bit of room, but not for a really big pot, just smaller ones around the sides.

Not sure if a rear flue option would do anything adverse to the efficiency of the stove.
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth. :roll:
MisterE
Posts: 766
Joined: 09 Jul 2006, 19:00

Post by MisterE »

Nice stove sunnyjim :-) My clearview served us well over winter. Its suprising how much wood you can go through though. But it feels so much nicer than gas central heating :-) Just need to do my solar hw, but I can not get time off work, the construction industry is going mental, work everywhere. Got the money there but no time. I'm hoping I'll get it done in October, not the best month but better than never :-)
User avatar
RenewableCandy
Posts: 12777
Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
Location: York

Post by RenewableCandy »

This thread is ace!

We had a Clearview 400 Pioneer installed in our previous house (5 beds), with no HW infrastructure, no rads, nothing fancy, in 2004.

Looking at our gas use before and after the installation showed we'd been saving about 20% by using the stove. And in the early spring and late autumn it made the house comfortable without having to put on the CH.

The estate agent loved it as a selling point. But the buyers asked us to take it with us!! So it's now in our new house! (@ LastDrop, the installation set us back over ?1800, but that did include a rather fancy hearth: our house is 1930s vintage).
Post Reply