Friends New house heating options

[rightee]

Hi,

I've been sent this email from a good friend

"Was wondering if you knew much about the best (most energy efficient/environmentally friendly) ways to heat homes?

The place we're trying to buy at the moment only has a log burner and 2 storage heaters with no heating on the 1st floor. Apparently the log burner does heat the house well but we'd also thinking about putting some electric heaters in the rooms that don't have any heating and replacing the storage heaters. The electric heaters are thermostatically and timer controlled and apparently do work out pretty energy efficient. Does that sounds like a good idea? Anything else you could recommend?"

Apparently it's a grade 2 listed building, prob 3 bedrooms, not large. They have 2 young kids. I'm not sure what to suggest apart from insulate, insulate, insulate!

[woodburner]

The log burner is nowhere near as efficient as a masonry stove, though the house may not be suitable for one.

Don't bother putting electric heaters (or any other heaters) in the rooms that don't have them. Surprising though it may seem, it is possible to live without heaters in every room. We do, there is no heating upstairs. When it's cold, we just use the upstairs for sleeping. It's warm in bed without heaters.

Children are irrelevant. They are quite happy if they are fed and clothed. How do you think people survived up to fifty years ago, before central heating was common?

[rightee]

Cheers, we live in a house with only 2 wood burners to do all the heating, 4 adults and 3 kids and no heating upstairs either and it's completely fine so I agree with you on that front!

[woodburner]

If you look at masonry stoves, you could save lots of wood, and have more even heat.

[kenneal - lagger]

If you look at masonry stoves, you could save lots of wood, and have more even heat.

Or a rocket mass heater.

If they insulate the first floor ceiling really well the heat coming up from the rooms below will keep the bedrooms warm enough while the heating is on downstairs. Obviously when the heating goes off downstairs the whole house will cool off depending on the insulation value of the walls and the airtightness of the structure,

We only have heating upstairs in the bath and shower rooms and are comfortable using heat from below.

[adam2]

I would retain the electric storage heaters, if used prudently they can be economical, and are certainly a very useful addition/backup to the woodstove.
One merit of electric storage heating is that normally ALL electricity used during the off peak hours is at a much reduced price.
Use of a washing machine overnight can save money for example.
If the house tends to be a bit cold cold in the early morning, then use of an electric heater for say the last 30 minutes of the off peak tariff can improve matters at little expense
Given a large and well insulated hot water tank, off peak electricity can be worthwhile for water heating.

Peak rate electric heating can be very expensive, and in my view should only be considered for short term or emergency heating needs or if the heating demand is very small.
Ignore all claims about super efficient or latest technology electric heaters that claim to slash running costs. All electric heaters are virtually 100% efficient.

Keep a good stock of logs ! they may be in short supply in the event of any dirsuption to other fuel supplies.
Most log burners can also burn coal, I would avoid so doing normally as coal is carbon intensive and dirty stuff to handle, but keeping a ton or two for emergencies might be advisable. It keeps beter than logs and takes up less space.

[emordnilap]

I'm not sure what to suggest apart from insulate, insulate, insulate!

Which is, of course, the best advice.

High on everyone's 'to do' list should be cutting down on heating inputs. It should stay high on the list for a long time, even as measures are put in place. A goal is to justifiably take it off the list.

[Tarrel]

The log burner is nowhere near as efficient as a masonry stove, though the house may not be suitable for one.

Don't bother putting electric heaters (or any other heaters) in the rooms that don't have them. Surprising though it may seem, it is possible to live without heaters in every room. We do, there is no heating upstairs. When it's cold, we just use the upstairs for sleeping. It's warm in bed without heaters.

Children are irrelevant. They are quite happy if they are fed and clothed. How do you think people survived up to fifty years ago, before central heating was common?

Actually, I think there is a positive benefit in discouraging children from spending too much time in their rooms. More time downstairs equals less time, e.g., undressing in front of voyeurs online, and more time socialising and interacting with real people. I must say we tried all sorts of strategies to control our children's internet time, but 3G finally scuppered us. It strikes me that a freezing cold bedroom might have done the trick though!

[RevdTess]

It strikes me that a freezing cold bedroom might have done the trick though!

When I was a religious Sister in a convent they told me that until the 80s the only place in the (very big, old) building that was heated was the chapel, which was certainly an encouragement to spend many long hours in prayer in the winter.

These days the chapel heating is largely broken and so the sisters pray in their centrally heated bedrooms! (still no insulation though or double-glazing - something to do with convents not qualifying for any insulation grants and being a listed building couldn't have double-glazing or something).

[Little John]

When I was a boy, we lived in an old 17th century tiny blacksmith’s cottage with only the one coal fire in the living room and that was it. My bedroom was in the loft, which, for the first few years had no insulation between me and the roof tiles. Indeed, the underneath side of the tiles was entirely visible. In the middle of winter, I would wake up on a morning with a layer of fluffy frost on my top blanket. I shit you not. I was warm enough myself as my mam would have me buried under about 10 blankets. However, getting up and dressed and downstairs in front of the fire was a somewhat rapid affair. Although, I should say, from about 7 or 8, my job was to light the bloody fire as well! Again, though, it's amazing how proficient and quick you become at lighting a coal fire when it's the middle of winter and you have no other source of heating.

[RenewableCandy]

Point of information: L J IS one of the "Four Yorkshiremen"

[RevdTess]

Point of information: Steve IS one of the "Four Yorkshiremen"

Nice attempt to head off the inevitability of this thread degenerating in the usual way

[RenewableCandy]

I, of course, am another (in disguise!)

[SleeperService]

When I was a boy, we lived in an old 17th century tiny blacksmith’s cottage with only the one coal fire in the living room and that was it. My bedroom was in the loft, which, for the first few years had no insulation between me and the roof tiles. Indeed, the underneath side of the tiles was entirely visible. In the middle of winter, I would wake up on a morning with a layer of fluffy frost on my top blanket. I shit you not. I was warm enough myself as my mam would have me buried under about 10 blankets. However, getting up and dressed and downstairs in front of the fire was a somewhat rapid affair. Although, I should say, from about 7 or 8, my job was to light the bloody fire as well! Again, though, it's amazing how proficient and quick you become at lighting a coal fire when it's the middle of winter and you have no other source of heating.

Aye, times were hard and kids today just don't believe it

Blast! RC has beaten me with the follow on.... EDIT: And so has Tess, I envy your nimble fingers

When insulating don't forget the draughts, they usually cause places to feel colder. Heavy curtains that reach the floor/window sill are also great.

Look at getting double glazed panels made to fit on the inside of the current windows. Use lift off hinges so they can be opened for ventilation and removed in the warmer months/weeks. If they have a garden the panels can be 'stored' by being cold frame glass!

[Tarrel]

When I was a boy, we lived in an old 17th century tiny blacksmith’s cottage with only the one coal fire in the living room and that was it. My bedroom was in the loft, which, for the first few years had no insulation between me and the roof tiles. Indeed, the underneath side of the tiles was entirely visible. In the middle of winter, I would wake up on a morning with a layer of fluffy frost on my top blanket. I shit you not. I was warm enough myself as my mam would have me buried under about 10 blankets. However, getting up and dressed and downstairs in front of the fire was a somewhat rapid affair. Although, I should say, from about 7 or 8, my job was to light the bloody fire as well! Again, though, it's amazing how proficient and quick you become at lighting a coal fire when it's the middle of winter and you have no other source of heating.

You were lucky. That were luxury!

When I was five (winter of '63), we moved into a prefab. HUGE metal framed, single glazed windows. Asbestos inner and outer skin with about two inches of rockwool between. Small inset coal stove with a back-boiler in the lounge, and that was it.

(I know about the construction because, when I was 10, they started pulling them down, and me and my mates had a ready-made adventure playground, until we had to move too).

We then moved into a 1930's end of terrace council house which, though warmer, was pretty basic in its layout by comparison. I preferred the prefab.