Gas alert as demand and prices rise

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 25 Sep 2013, 00:11

Tess wrote: Market-fixing is a total minefield of unintended consequence.

Spot on there Tess.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Sep 2013, 01:01

Milliband does what every other politician does, and makes empty promises. If labour wins the next election, he will use the usual get out, "we were misled about the state of the economy, and the figures are worse than we were told". He will then go on to announce that it will be fixed by using the expertise of private industry all neatly sewn up in PFIs.

Post by **mikepepler** » 14 Oct 2013, 16:41

It's that time of year again, so I've done a roundup of the National Grid winter outlook and my own graphs of the current state of UK gas storage and prices:

http://peakoilupdate.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... s-and.html

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 14 Oct 2013, 17:58

Excellent stuff, Mike.

cubes · Post by **cubes** » 14 Oct 2013, 20:24

Imo, it's best we get a really cold winter that pushes things over the edge now - where we have resources to limit the effect. This will hopefully push things to actually be done, rather than government and industry blaming each other for sitting on their arses.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 14 Oct 2013, 21:25

If we get a gas shortage the government will just push harder for fracking rather than increase the amount of storage. It would be just the excuse that they want and need.

Why should Centrica spend a fortune on a new storage facility when the government are pushing for a fracked gas supply? that's how fracking is disrupting the fossil fuel supply and investment let alone the renewables investment.

If the light go out they will call for more nuclear rather than look for negawatts, which is the only sustainable course of action.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 15 Oct 2013, 11:03

The talk at the moment is for a very hard November. I know forecasting weather more than three days in advance doesn't really work but, at least over here, a very cold winter would not surprise me. We have to pay for our good summer. The bill may be plus interest, plus VAT.

stumuzz · Post by **stumuzz** » 15 Oct 2013, 13:26

kenneal - lagger wrote:If we get a gas shortage the government will just push harder for fracking rather than increase the amount of storage. It would be just the excuse that they want and need.

The subject of fracking came up on a conference call to the states last week. The thrust of the US position was our chemical industry will relocate to the states unless or until we get uber cheap gas. The home response was that they would reduce expose to bulk chemical and up their positioning on the refined expensive stuff until the US gas was more analogous to ours.
Or, we should wait until our fracking industry was up to speed in a bout 24 months (yeh right)

In the spirit of Aristotle decisions of the collective are better than experts, opinion was sort from everyone.

I gave my non expert, decidedly lay persons view that fracking would not happen in any meaningful way in the UK because;

1/ Not many landowners will give permission to frack as the crown will get the wonga if any gas is recovered. This is the direct opposite of the US where the landowner gets the dosh.

2/ Most peoples wealth is wrapped up in property and land so if they get a sniff of fracking they will object forcefully.

3/ There are challenges afoot citing "Cuius est solum eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos" basically 'you own your land to the centre of the earth'
which al fayed of Harrods seems to have won at first instance yesterday, but there are more in the pipeline.

4/. The old tort of Rylands v Flethcher seems ripe to be used by vexatious litigants and no win no fee lawyers to claim for every crack and ailment that a property suffers

5/ As we are all good Europeans we all share the price reductions. Which will be teeny weeny.

A stoney silence fell and we were all thanked for our time.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 17 Oct 2013, 14:32

The latest 9.2% price increase from British Gas is being met with howls of rage and incomprehension in the comment pages of the Guardian - which I thought was read by the more clued up members of society.

The concept that we are broke and running out of gas never seems to reach the level of consciousness, and any attempt to post the facts gets lost in the noise. People are looking for scapegoats, and the only thing is they can't decide between incompetent government, greedy capitalists and Greenpeace protestors who to lynch first.

Although there are some calls to face reality and insulate, these are largely drowned out as well.

It will not end well.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 Oct 2013, 15:31

Yup I heard on the lunchtime news there were Words in the House about this one. But what's the point? What can politicians do now they've let the dog off the leash? When I'm cycling into town this is what dog-owners do: they see a bit of grass, go into "rural" mode and let their dog off. The dog then prats about on the cycle-path and unless you slow to walking pace it's 2 broken ribs and a cracked skull. The owner, having caused the inconvenience, then calls the dog to, often across the line of said path. This is to salve their conscience rather than to help.

It is a credit to the intelligence and social-ness of (most) dogs, that as I come nearer they usually sit tight rather than obey

I guess the Big 6 Dog is going to sit tight.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 17 Oct 2013, 15:48

The mammals I have to negotiate cycling in each morning are much larger but fortunately less capricious than canines. However passing too close to their rear end is to risk a kick or a very smelly day at work. (I also have to negotiate canines, toddlers , tourists , other cyclists, joggers, pushchairs, toddlers on bikes, tourists on bikes and entire swarms of hockey stick wielding schoolgirls.)

Edit

I used to cycle across a common with an underpass under the railway line half way across it. One day the underpass was completely blocked by about a dozen ponies sheltering from the rain, with half a dozen commuters looking bemused and stranded on each side.

I approached the lead pony and breathed three times up its nostril. On the third breath the pony turned tail and the herd galloped off, scattering the commuters on the far side.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 17 Oct 2013, 16:00

However passing too close to their rear end is to risk a kick or a very smelly day at work

I sincerely hope you're talking about horses and not other people.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 17 Oct 2013, 16:03

Yup I heard on the lunchtime news there were Words in the House about this one.

Ed Davey said that, if people were concerned, they should switch suppliers. This is exactly what he said when SSE announced their increase the other week. I wonder how many heeded his advice and switched to British Gas?

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 17 Oct 2013, 16:11

I changed to Cooperative, which provides 100% renewable electricity.

I ain't changing again in a hurry.

cubes · Post by **cubes** » 18 Oct 2013, 16:44

They've just put their prices up by 4.5% too.

Still, it's less than the rest of the rises.

http://www.cooperativeenergy.coop/2013/ ... customers/