Gosh, more peace and harmony.stevecook172001 wrote:I pasting this up B. It's important.
Syria watch...
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- biffvernon
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Now back to David Malone at Golem XIV:
Syria - Cui bono Part 3: Europe and the USA
Syria - Cui bono Part 3: Europe and the USA
David Malone wrote:The official story about any intervention in Syria is that we are not after any benefit for ourselves. We are just appalled at the use of gas and feel ourselves to be the guardians of international law, freedom and innocent children. Yeah right!
In part One I took issue with this ‘Simple World’ narrative. In part Two I looked at how Qatar’s desire to export its gas to Europe via a pipeline across Syria and Saudi’s determination to stop it, had brought them both to support Syrian rebels but for entirely different end games.
Now let’s turn to Europe and the U.S. and see how they too have agendas which may, on the surface, appear to be aligned but are not. Specifically why, of all European nations, is France so keen to go to war in Syria? And what American strategic interest might be served by allowing or even helping money and arms to flow to Islamist fighters in Syria belonging to al-Qaeda affiliated Jabhat al-Nusrah?
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
Here here! What a speech......stevecook172001 wrote:Yeah, i think so.biffvernon wrote:Almost makes you wonder whether that chancy vote in Parliament might not have been a significant tipping point in the tides of men.
Fingers crossed.
I also think this man's speech was quite possibly pivotal in that vote. Especially so given the suspiciously blanket lack of coverage by the media of it. Whatever else one may think of this man, it was sufficiently eloquent of tone and sufficiently powerful of argument that you would have thought it would have received at least a cursory mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgxzpQrqSkg
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- biffvernon
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Er, yes, we got side-tracked. David Malone's article is certainly worth reading. Of course I've no idea whether any of it is true but the stuff about pipelines reminded me of Ahmed Rasheed's book 'Afghanistan', written just before 9/11, in which he predicts conflict over pipeline routes. He was not proved wrong by subsequent events.raspberry-blower wrote:Now back to David Malone at Golem XIV:
Syria - Cui bono Part 3: Europe and the USA
Putin directly addresses the American people in the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opini ... html?_r=1&
I would have thought this was pretty unprecedented:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opini ... html?_r=1&
I would have thought this was pretty unprecedented:
A Plea for Caution From Russia
MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.
Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.
The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.
No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.
The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.
Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.
Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.
From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.
No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.
It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”
But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.
No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.
The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.
We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.
A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.
I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.
If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.
My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
- UndercoverElephant
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Yes. It really does feel like we are at some kind of pivotal moment regarding the international order. It looks like the US can't just go into Syria and drop some bombs, and for reasons unlike any I can remember. They are no longer credibly "the world's policeman", and it seems that even they are now realising that the world is more complicated than internal US politics tries to make it look.
- biffvernon
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- emordnilap
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Heh heh. Fooled by the backward Americans.biffvernon wrote:John Pilger, as eloquent and truthful as ever, delivers a fitting essay for the 9th of September. http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-hir ... -not-speakThe judges at Nuremberg were succinct: "Individual citizens have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity."
Seriously, little has changed since Pilger's powerful speech in 2009 when he accepted the Sydney Peace Prize, a speech of 100% truth which contained numerous verbal stomach punches.
This piece is almost too powerful; the scale of atrocities 'in our name' means that conciseness of language omits crucial details and much of his writing goes over peoples' heads, if read at all. Having said that, the piece would make a glass eye weep. Well done again JP, incandescent.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
- biffvernon
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Maybe it's 'our' side that has been using the chemical weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.medialens.org/index.php?opti ... cle&id=741
http://www.medialens.org/index.php?opti ... cle&id=741
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Surely not. The west is the savior of the world
That can't be the Monsanto that is trying to feed everybody, can it?Denis Halliday said:
'This tragedy in Iraq reminds one of US Chemical Weapons used in Vietnam. And that the US has failed to acknowledge or pay compensation or provide medical assistance to thousands of deformed children born and still being born due to American military use of Agent Orange throughout the country. The millions of gallons of this chemical dumped on rural Vietnam were eagerly manufactured and sold to the Pentagon by companies Dupont, Monsanto and others greedy for huge profits.'
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
- biffvernon
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Yes, Agent Orange, white phosphorus, depleted uranium, mustard gas, sarin, they are all different.
We don't know yet but it may turn out that Agent Orange, with it's teratogenic effects, ruins the most lives, even though the perpetrators may have thought they were 'just' defoliating the jungle.
Killing anyone by any method is a Bad Thing, but I may have mentioned that before.
We don't know yet but it may turn out that Agent Orange, with it's teratogenic effects, ruins the most lives, even though the perpetrators may have thought they were 'just' defoliating the jungle.
Killing anyone by any method is a Bad Thing, but I may have mentioned that before.
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This could be a major step forward in resolving the "manufactured" crises in Syria
Robert Fisk wrote:The delegation made four points: that there must be an “internal Syrian dialogue”; that private and public properties must be maintained; that there must be an end to – and condemnation of – civil, sectarian, ethnic strife; and that all must work for a democratic Syria where the supremacy of law would be dominant. There was no demand – at least at this stage – for Assad’s departure.
The reply apparently came promptly. There should indeed be “a dialogue within the Syrian homeland”; no preconditions for the dialogue; and a presidential guarantee of safety for any FSA men participating. And now, it seems, another remarkable development is under way: in seven rebel-held areas of Aleppo, most of them under the control of the FSA, civil employees can return to work in their offices, and government institutions and schools can reopen. Students who have become militiamen over the past two years will be disarmed and return to their classrooms.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
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Reminds me of Mark Thomas.UndercoverElephant wrote:Yes. It really does feel like we are at some kind of pivotal moment regarding the international order. It looks like the US can't just go into Syria and drop some bombs, and for reasons unlike any I can remember. They are no longer credibly "the world's policeman", and it seems that even they are now realising that the world is more complicated than internal US politics tries to make it look.
- emordnilap
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Psychopaths and deluded propagandists, sorry, the US and Israel, combined with incalculable wealth. Look out Syria.
More here. A true unholy alliance.
More here. A true unholy alliance.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker