Independent Testing Of Rossi's E-Cat Cold Fusion Device

[hodson2k9]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2 ... after-all/

What everyone wanted was something
that Rossi has been promising was about
to happen for months: An independent
test by third parties who were credible.
This report was delayed several times to
the point where many were wondering
whether it was all nothing more than
what we have come to see as Rossi’s usual
“jam tomorrow” promises. But much to
my, and I suspect many other people’s
surprise, a report by credible,
independent third parties is exactly what
we got.

The paper was authored by Giuseppe
Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy;
Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn
Hartman, Bo Höistad , Roland Pettersson
and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University,
Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén , of the
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm,
Sweden. While some of these people have
previously been public in their support of
Rossi and the E-Cat they are all serious
academics with reputations to loose and
the paper is detailed and thorough.

The present report describes the results
obtained from evaluations of the
operation of the E-Cat HT in two test
runs. The first test experiment, lasting
96 hours (from Dec. 13th 2012, to Dec.
17th 2012), was carried out by the two
first authors of this paper, Levi and
Foschi, while the second experiment,
lasting for 116 hours (from March 18th
2013, to March 23rd 2013), was carried
out by all authors. The authors conclusions were:

… if we consider the whole volume of
the reactor core and the most
conservative figures on energy
production, we still get a value of (7.93
± 0.8 ) 102 MJ/Liter that is one order of
magnitude higher than any conventional
source.

.....

as can be seen, the E-Cat has roughly four orders of magnitude more specific energy and three orders of magnitude greater peak power than gasoline!

[Little John]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2 ... after-all/

What everyone wanted was something
that Rossi has been promising was about
to happen for months: An independent
test by third parties who were credible.
This report was delayed several times to
the point where many were wondering
whether it was all nothing more than
what we have come to see as Rossi’s usual
“jam tomorrow” promises. But much to
my, and I suspect many other people’s
surprise, a report by credible,
independent third parties is exactly what
we got.

The paper was authored by Giuseppe
Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy;
Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn
Hartman, Bo Höistad , Roland Pettersson
and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University,
Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén , of the
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm,
Sweden. While some of these people have
previously been public in their support of
Rossi and the E-Cat they are all serious
academics with reputations to loose and
the paper is detailed and thorough.

The present report describes the results
obtained from evaluations of the
operation of the E-Cat HT in two test
runs. The first test experiment, lasting
96 hours (from Dec. 13th 2012, to Dec.
17th 2012), was carried out by the two
first authors of this paper, Levi and
Foschi, while the second experiment,
lasting for 116 hours (from March 18th
2013, to March 23rd 2013), was carried
out by all authors. The authors conclusions were:

… if we consider the whole volume of
the reactor core and the most
conservative figures on energy
production, we still get a value of (7.93
± 0.8 ) 102 MJ/Liter that is one order of
magnitude higher than any conventional
source.

.....

as can be seen, the E-Cat has roughly four orders of magnitude more specific energy and three orders of magnitude greater peak power than gasoline!

You're a bit of a one trick pony H.

[hodson2k9]

You're a bit of a one trick pony H.

And that would be why? ...

[adam2]

Hang onto your wallets is my suggestion.
I will not believe it until I see a car, truck, train, bus or home powered by one at a lower cost than by petrol or electricity obtained from the grid.

From time to time radical new advances are announced in cold fusion or somwhat related free energy devices, but I have yet to hear of anyone becoming rich by producing electricity thus and selling it.

[Little John]

You're a bit of a one trick pony H.

And that would be why? ...

Because you keep posting up links telling us all how someone has developed a magical new cold fusion reaction and how it is going to change the world. Ever since I joined this site you have been doing this.

I am just wondering how many times you need to do this and how many years need to pass before you finally realize it's all a load of old bollocks or, if not bollocks at some obscure theoretical level, is certainly bollocks out here in the real world. Cold fusion is the last of the great techno-optimist fantasies.

It's time to grow up, get real and learn to live within our means.

[hodson2k9]

You're a bit of a one trick pony H.

And that would be why? ...

Because you keep posting up links telling us all how someone has developed a magical new cold fusion reaction and how it is going to change the world. Ever since i joined this site you have been doing this.

I am just wondering how many times you need to do this and how many years need to pass before you finally realize it's all a load of old bollocks or, if not bollcoks at some obscure theoretical level, is certainly bollocks out here in the real world. Cold fusion is the last of the great techno-optimist fantasies.

It's time to grow up, to get real and to learn to live within our means.

Ok well i will call your bollocks and say your talking bollocks .

1 where have i stated on this post actually forum that i believe someone has created a cold fusion device and that it will change the world? i would like to see it.

Yes i have posted links to what other people (mainly scientist and professors) have said or as above reported actually no tested. Yet i havent said its true or that i believe in it.

I have said and will admit that i think (or should i say know) that LENR is theoretically possible i have seen thousands of scientific papers to support this claim from SPAWAR (the navy) to NASA to Toyota to Mitsubishi. Just like i have seen thousands of papers on the reality of peak oil.

Yet never have i said i believe rossi and his e-cat is true i actually have said i think its a hoax! although i will admit and im not ashamed to admit that i will now give him the benefit of doubt and give him time before i judge him and call him a liar. After all if 5 independent respected scientists from respected universities can not find a scam while testing his device then its good enough for me to follow the story and see where it ends. If it ends in a hoax who cares im not kiddig myself in thinking this will render peak oil pointless im fully prepared for peak oil and will remain so!

2 im fully grown up my friend way before my years. At the ripe old age of 24 i am way above most people of my age when it comes to knowing how the real world works!

I know about resource depletion, the state of the economy, our contaminated food supply, climate change, our controlled governments, our manipulating controlled media, our fraudulant banking system etc and i have taken steps to protect my family (as best i can) from these threats. So dont talk such nonsense about needing to grow up and getting with the real world because i can assure you your way off the mark!

By the way you seem very confident of the fact LENR and rossi is bollocks i would love you to share your inside knowledge on the matter and your expertise in the subject it would be very helpful.

Also I never knew we was in the presence of a claire voyant you should of said, then we could of all bowed to your every word of infinite wisdon and knowledge ... who knew.

[Little John]

And that would be why? ...

Because you keep posting up links telling us all how someone has developed a magical new cold fusion reaction and how it is going to change the world. Ever since i joined this site you have been doing this.

I am just wondering how many times you need to do this and how many years need to pass before you finally realize it's all a load of old bollocks or, if not bollcoks at some obscure theoretical level, is certainly bollocks out here in the real world. Cold fusion is the last of the great techno-optimist fantasies.

It's time to grow up, to get real and to learn to live within our means.

Ok well i will call your bollocks and say your talking bollocks .

1 where have i stated on this post actually forum that i believe someone has created a cold fusion device and that it will change the world? i would like to see it.

Yes i have posted links to what other people (mainly scientist and professors) have said or as above reported actually no tested. Yet i havent said its true or that i believe in it.

I have said and will admit that i think (or should i say know) that LENR is theoretically possible i have seen thousands of scientific papers to support this claim from SPAWAR (the navy) to NASA to Toyota to Mitsubishi. Just like i have seen thousands of papers on the reality of peak oil.

Yet never have i said i believe rossi and his e-cat is true i actually have said i think its a hoax! although i will admit and im not ashamed to admit that i will now give him the benefit of doubt and give him time before i judge him and call him a liar. As if 5 independent respected scientists from respected universities can not find a scam while testing his device then its good enough for me to follow the story and see where it ends. If it ends in a hoax who cares im not kiddig myself in thinking this will render peak oil pointless im fully prepared for peak oil and will remain so!

2 im fully grown up my friend way before my years. At the tender age of 24 i am way above most people of my age and i sure as hell know how the real world works!

I know about resource depletion, the state of the economy, our contaminated food supply, climate change, our controlled governments, our manipulating controlled media, our fraudulant banking system etc and i have taken steps to protect my family (as best i can) from these threats. So dont talk such nonsense about needing to grow up and getting with the real world because i can assure you your way off the mark!

By the way you seem very confident of the fact LENR and rossi is bollocks i would love you to share your inside knowledge on the matter and your expertise in the subject it would be very helpful. I never knew we was in the presence of a claire voyant .... who knew.

It's patently clear that there will be nothing anyone might say to you to change your beliefs and so, regretfully, I consider further communication with you on this topic futile.

[hodson2k9]

It's patently clear that there will be nothing anyone might say to you to change your beliefs and so, regretfully, I consider further communication with you on this topic futile.

I think that is very wise.

Im sorry to dissapoint but i dont listen and thus form judgements from peoples opinions on a blog. I read and research opinions and facts (from scientific papers etc) from respected independent scientists, doctors, nutrionsists, economists, geologists, proffesors etc. Then and only then after much reading will i form an opinion/judgement on something.

So yes you will be wasting your time unless you can point me to some unkown inside information you know, or maybe you are a respected independant scientist with scientific evidence backing up your argument if so please do tell i woud really (and i really do mean that) love to know.

I must add this board is so full of irony its unbelieavble.

(that last sentance is not directed directly at you by the way Steve just a general view)

[Little John]

It's patently clear that there will be nothing anyone might say to you to change your beliefs and so, regretfully, I consider further communication with you on this topic futile.

I think that is very wise.

Im sorry to dissapoint but i dont listen and thus form judgements from peoples opinions on a blog. I read and research opinions and facts (from scientific papers etc) from respected independent scientists, doctors, nutrionsists, economists, geologists, proffesors etc. Then and only then after much reading will i form an opinion/judgement on something.

So yes you will be wasting your time unless you can point me to some unkown inside information you know, or maybe you are a respected independant scientist with scientific evidence backing up your argument if so please do tell i woud really (and i really do mean that) love to know.

I must add this board is so full of irony its unbelieavble.

(that last sentance is not directed directly at you by the way Steve just a general view)

Ok H. One last try.

Since you are so well versed, apparently, in cold fusion and Rossi's E-Cat in particular, perhaps you might be able to provide some answers to the following questions:

1) During all of Rossi's public demonstrations of the E-CAT, why has he not allowed observers to closely inspect the device or its various sub-components whilst it is being demonstrated in operation?

2) Typically, during Rossi's public demonstrations of the E-CAT, the device is completely covered up from public view. Why?

3) During all of Rossi's public demonstrations of the E-CAT, why has he always insisted on an external power source being connected to the apparatus? Why has his explanation always been that this external power source was need to run "pumps" and "fans" despite the fact that no observer has ever been allowed to closely examine where these power sources lead to inside the E-Cat apparatus? Why, when Rossi was offered at a public demonstration, by international entrepreneur Dick Smith, one million dollars to demonstrate that the E-CAT system worked as claimed, while the power through the earth wire was also being measured, did Rossi refuse the offer? Such a measurement would not have required that any of the internal components of the device be made known and so Rossi should have had no problem with such a measurement. But he did. Why?

4) Why, given that Rossi insists that his E-CAT requires a "special" additive to work, has he consistently refused to explain what this additive is to even his own business partner, never mind to other academics he is trying to convince of its validity?

5) Why, during all of Rossi's public demonstrations, has he only ever allowed his own team or himself to make measurements of excess heat from the apparatus, but has never allowed independent measures of excess heat to be taken? Again such a measurement would not require that Rossi give up any technological secrets of the device and so he should have no problem. But he does. Why?

6) Rossi has tried to patent his E-CAT with the European Patent Office with no success. The patent office's reasons included: "....the description of the device was based on "general statements and speculations"...". Furthermore, they cited "numerous deficiencies in both the description and in the evidence provided to support its feasibility". Do you think the European Patent office is part of some giant global conspiracy to suppress Rossi's device?

In short, Rossi not only refuses to allow independent inspection of the device in operation (for which it is at least possible to make a case based on protection of technological secrets), but also refuses to allow an independent measurement of energy in/energy out while the device is operating. This final criticism is the most damning because such an energy in/energy out measurement would not require that Rossi give up any secrets about how the device itself operates. In lieu of all of the above, my final question to you is this:

Why do you appear to be pathologically incapable of seeing Rossi for the snake-oil salesman he demonstrably is?

[ceti331]

if it works, surely he can just start selling the energy,
or using the energy to make something he can sell

why does he have to convince people it works?
to scam them into investing ?

[adam2]

if it works, surely he can just start selling the energy,
or using the energy to make something he can sell

why does he have to convince people it works?
to scam them into investing ?

Yes

[clv101]

...but also refuses to allow an independent measurement of energy in/energy out while the device is operating. This final criticism is the most damning because such an energy in/energy out measurement would not require that Rossi give up any secrets about how the device itself operates.

Isn't this exactly what the linked to paper does?

[hodson2k9]

if it works, surely he can just start selling the
energy,

or using the energy to make something he
can sell

why does he have to convince people it
works?
to scam them into investing ?

Ok well i have a busy morning ahead of me
so will start with this as i do not have the
time or interest to answer steves questions (i
couldnt care less if you beleive or not believe)
some of which i might add are absolute
nonsense.

Its obvious that steve has done a little
research but its also obvious that steves
research on the subject has been very
agenda driven (as to find only answers that
suits his opinion) as he could of easily found
the answers to some of his own questions
but hey ho.

Your questions steve remind me of someone i
had a debate with on peak oil they did
exactly the same as you.

My point being anyone can find snippets of
information to suit there agenda but it doesnt
mean there correct only after thorough,
agenda free researching witch you go in with
a open mind, can you find the truth or in this
case form a real independent opinion on
something.

As its clear your opinion on this subject was
made up a long time ago, so no amount of
independent testing or the like will change
your mind, i wont waste my energy. The
answers to your questions are out there.

Ceti you make a very good point and your
point is something rossi has said
continuously. He has stated clearly that he
has no interest in convincing people/skeptics
that his device works he has said from the
begining that all he has a interest in is
getting his device on the market and that in a
nutshell is his business strategy.

Im sure you understand that it takes time to
bring a new technology to market especially
a technology as revolutionary as this ( if true
of course ).

As for your point of surely he can just start
selling energy. It is obviously clear from the
3rd party indepentant tests that rossi is still
having issues with controlling his device.

You can see this from the fact that on the
1st test the cop was higher than on the 2nd
test and from the fact that the authors noted
that on a third test the reaction went out of
control and destroyed the reactor.

So taking this into account if the device does
work as stated it will be a while longer yet
untill the product reaches market.

I will end with this:

The conclusion of the report is that the heat
production is orders of magnitude beyond
any conventional chemical energy source,
beaten only by nuclear based power sources.
Yet the scientists have systematically made
conservative assumptions in order to base
the result on a worst case scenario.

“Even by the most conservative assumptions
as to errors in the measurements, the result
is still one order of magnitude greater than
conventional energy sources.”

In the tests, about 5.6 and 2.6 times the
input energy was produced respectively
(COP). An hypothesis for the lower value in
the second test is that it might be explained
by a lower working temperature , on average
302 °C against 438 °C in the first run.

In the second test an identical dummy
reactor without fuel charge was run with the
same experimental set-up and found to
produce no excess heat.

And that from 5 respected and idependent
scientists from respected universities who
were allowed over 200 hours of testing, left
on there own unsupervised, with there own measuring equipment and allowed to publish the results no matter the outcome. That is enough for me to continue following this story and see where it ends.

And if that isnt enough a longer test of the
same device lasting for about six months is
planned to be made later this year.

[hodson2k9]

...but also refuses to allow an independent measurement of energy in/energy out while the device is operating. This final criticism is the most damning because such an energy in/energy out measurement would not require that Rossi give up any secrets about how the device itself operates.

Isn't this exactly what the linked to paper does?

Yes Clv its clearly does, like i said agenda driven research only leads to one outcome.

[Little John]

...but also refuses to allow an independent measurement of energy in/energy out while the device is operating. This final criticism is the most damning because such an energy in/energy out measurement would not require that Rossi give up any secrets about how the device itself operates.

Isn't this exactly what the linked to paper does?

It is indeed what the paper links to. However, given the known history of this man as an evasive, secretive and obfuscatory charlatan, I would lay bets on this latest news being yet another chapter in this hoax. I may be wrong of course. But, as I said, I would lay good money down on not being.

But hey, lets just assume for the sake of argument that someone does discover the ultimate perpetual motion machine and so we can generate "free" energy from now on. How long, then, before we get complete environmental collapse?

We are either going to crash or we are going to burn. That much is certain. For our own sakes, as well as for the sake of the rest of life on earth, I hope we crash.