The Sound of the Gravediggers

Forum for general discussion of Peak Oil / Oil depletion; also covering related subjects

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
jonny2mad
Posts: 2452
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: weston super mare

Post by jonny2mad »

Nazism and Communism are both beliefs in a sort of utopia, one being universal the other for specific people or peoples, they were and are both hopeful positive projects for the people involved in them.
The only problem being that both Nazism and communism have had major failures and reverses so they may have a job filling the void left by the decline in Christianity and liberal democracy endless growth in the future .

:shock: But I suppose we see their failures because we are sort of close to them, and we live in a system that wants to point out the failure of other systems

So they may be rehashed in some form or other, but we have to put this in the context of less resources and less energy .
When you look at Nazism you could look at the American Black Panther movement making links with Zimbabwe and South Africa and working at murdering non Africans, that’s a utopian project again and not nihilism, I’d expect to see a lot more of that going on.

Human population is going to fall my guess largely by genocide its either that or starvation
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
User avatar
clv101
Site Admin
Posts: 10576
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Contact:

Post by clv101 »

jonny2mad wrote:Human population is going to fall my guess largely by genocide its either that or starvation
It's really hard for genocide to have a big impact. Global population is growing at around 1.2%, that's some 1.6 million people per week. The only things that are likely to impact that in the next few decades are changes to birth rate, famine, plague etc. Politics/genocide just isn't a big enough force.
User avatar
biffvernon
Posts: 18538
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Post by biffvernon »

Compare and contrast.

Violent deaths in Iraq over the last ten years are estimated variously from a little over 100000 to as much as a million, with best guesses around 600000

The World Health Organization estimates that 2 million intentional poisonings occur each year using agro-chemicals. Paraquat is the commonest suicide poison.

Curiously, there is less fuss made about organic farming than about peace. ;)
User avatar
jonny2mad
Posts: 2452
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: weston super mare

Post by jonny2mad »

clv101 wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:Human population is going to fall my guess largely by genocide its either that or starvation
It's really hard for genocide to have a big impact. Global population is growing at around 1.2%, that's some 1.6 million people per week. The only things that are likely to impact that in the next few decades are changes to birth rate, famine, plague etc. Politics/genocide just isn't a big enough force.
Depends on how many people you kill I imagine, intertribal conflict worldwide could be a big factor, rwanda they killed 800,000 people in 100 days with machetes :shock:

I'm thinking of easter Island but on a world scale with better weapons especially at the begining
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
User avatar
PS_RalphW
Posts: 6974
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Cambridge

Post by PS_RalphW »

In the second world war, the UK starved about a million Indians to death by exporting all the grain harvest 'for the war effort' from the Bihar region in eastern India in the middle of a drought and failed harvest.

Those deaths are never included in the official totals for WWII.

Most people will die of starvation and/or disease. Many will be young children/babies because they are most vulnerable.

Birth rates will not decline further. Child mortality will return to 'normal' levels. Life expectancy will fall sharply due to loss of sanitation, antibiotics, etc. The frail will be largely left to fend for themselves, unless younger family members are prepared to take them in.

'Gang warfare' , muggings etc. will increase as states 'fail' until we return to tribal social structures where local truces keep the the relative peace, and the distinction disappears between warfare and common murder.
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13523
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

RalphW wrote:In the second world war, the UK starved about a million Indians to death by exporting all the grain harvest 'for the war effort' from the Bihar region in eastern India in the middle of a drought and failed harvest.

Those deaths are never included in the official totals for WWII.

Most people will die of starvation and/or disease.
Yes. It's not so much "which of the big three malthusian factors will play the biggest part?" as "all three are inter-connected." Wars lead to starvation and disease. Starvation and resource-scarcity lead to wars and disease. Only large-scale disease actually reduces the other two problems, but this has not happened in the western world on a large-enough scale since the last major outbreak of the Black Death in the 17th century (1665 in the UK, IIRC).
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
emordnilap
Posts: 14814
Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
Location: here

Post by emordnilap »

Atman wrote:I got as far as 'JavaScriptDonkey' and gave up.
:lol: :lol: Post of the year.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2013- ... f-progress

Brillant post by Greer who explores in greater depth the civil religion of progress.

Be warned! A long article which requires intellectual stamina to read.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2013- ... hree-heads

Greer's latest on the civil religion of progress. Excellent read.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Post Reply