Gov response to PO when disruptions become common

[Vortex]

The knowledge of impending doom is not necessarily helpful ... perhaps we should abandon worrying about it and grab a cheap EasyJet flight to somewhere warm ...

. . . like the future?

Excellent!

Fly in the jet long enough and you can simply land back at home!

[mikepepler]

... but the crazy thing is that whilst we can TALK and INFORM about Peak Oil, Peak Gas etc ... the lights will STILL go out, the economy will STILL fade away.

The knowledge helps us individually I suppose ...

I think that the knowledge is the most important point. Even if you do absolutely no preparation, having some understanding of the real reasons for events can enable you to make better decisions, as you won't be ranting against the government or oil companies or gas/elec suppliers, as you know the problem is the whole system we have built. Psychological preparation for what is to come, especially the end of economic growth, is the first step, and I think the step that can yield the most important fruit.

If I didn't believe that then I might be keeping the Peak Oil knowledge to myself, so I might gain some kind of "advantage" by preparing in secret. But I know that we only stand a chance working together, and the more people that know, the better.

[kenneal - lagger]

We'll know when things are starting to get really bad because local government and then the civil service wil go on strike for an exhorbitant wage rise.

[Vortex]

We'll know when things are starting to get really bad because local government and then the civil service wil go on strike for an exhorbitant wage rise.

Err ... I'm feeling dumber than usual ... why would that be?

[mikepepler]

We'll know when things are starting to get really bad because local government and then the civil service wil go on strike for an exhorbitant wage rise.

Err ... I'm feeling dumber than usual ... why would that be?

Perhaps something to do with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent

Interesting to note that the root cause was inflation driven by rising oil prices.

Sound familiar anyone?

[kenneal - lagger]

Thanks, Mike. I wouldn't have thought you were old enough to remember that.

When the sh*t hits the fan, inflation will be away and government employees usually demand their pound of flesh and their pension rights. Shouldn't say too much my wife is there or there abouts.

[Vortex]

inflation will be away and government employees usually demand their pound of flesh and their pension rights

That's why council taxes rise so much. The council pension investments on the stock market fail to pay out much so they have to raise more money. Where does it come from?

Some comes from pensioners ... their pensions effectively fall in order to bolster the civil service pensions.

If they are on state pensions they can ill afford this deduction. The poor become poorer.

If they have private pensions, these can also fall because of the same stock market effect ... the pensioners' annual income can drop significantly. So they experience a "double whammy" - increased council tax and decreased income.

Yep, the civil servants have feathered their nest nicely!

[bigjim]

. . . like the future?

2163 ought to do the trick!

[mikepepler]

Thanks, Mike. I wouldn't have thought you were old enough to remember that.

I'm not, I was only 5 at the time!

[GD]

inflation will be away and government employees usually demand their pound of flesh and their pension rights

That's why council taxes rise so much. The council pension investments on the stock market fail to pay out much so they have to raise more money. Where does it come from?

Some comes from pensioners ... their pensions effectively fall in order to bolster the civil service pensions.

If they are on state pensions they can ill afford this deduction. The poor become poorer.

If they have private pensions, these can also fall because of the same stock market effect ... the pensioners' annual income can drop significantly. So they experience a "double whammy" - increased council tax and decreased income.

Yep, the civil servants have feathered their nest nicely!

Have you seen the planned reforms? Councils are looking at replacing the band system with a fixed % of the property value.
It's been introduced in NI, and is looking on the cards for England.

Son of Council Tax

[Totally_Baffled]

I think that the knowledge is the most important point. Even if you do absolutely no preparation, having some understanding of the real reasons for events can enable you to make better decisions, as you won't be ranting against the government or oil companies or gas/elec suppliers, as you know the problem is the whole system we have built. Psychological preparation for what is to come, especially the end of economic growth, is the first step, and I think the step that can yield the most important fruit.

If I didn't believe that then I might be keeping the Peak Oil knowledge to myself, so I might gain some kind of "advantage" by preparing in secret. But I know that we only stand a chance working together, and the more people that know, the better.

Good post - I think you hit the nail on the head about the Psychological bit, once you have had time to come to terms with it , you dont feel so angry or so damn miserable. You also start to manage your own expectations, so I wont be able to do or afford many of the hobbies I do now , but instead I have consoled myself with all the other things I can still do (that dont require cash or petroleum ie books, playing the piano , footy etc etc!!!)

[Vortex]

Have you seen the planned reforms? Councils are looking at replacing the band system with a fixed % of the property value.
It's been introduced in NI, and is looking on the cards for England.

There is a reason behind this ... they wouldn't be doing this unless they expected to increase the total tax take ... although obviously they will push the concept of "fairness" to mask the financial aspects.

Also, would it be too cynical to suggest that Labour voting areas will get hit least .. or might even benefit?

[aliwood]

Also, would it be too cynical to suggest that Labour voting areas will get hit least .. or might even benefit?

This really has me thinking. I live in an area where they weigh the Labour vote instead of counting it. All the properties in this particular area (and most of the town) are in Band A, they are 3 bed semis with large gardens, many of which are rapidly becoming large car ports with two cars. It's on the edge of a council estate close to a school and hence many properties are now private instead of council houses. The council tax band is really discounted against the prices of the properties and if they valued the area now under the old scheme I think we would end up in band C. There must be a lot of areas like this and it would obviously be unpopular.

Also, if they operate a % scheme where is the incentive to 'improve' your property, we could end up with some fairly dreadful housing problems. I seem to remember my gran mentioning that under the old rates system if you had central heating installed this was seen as an additional benefit and your rates went up, so many people didn't get it put in.

[GD]

Also, would it be too cynical to suggest that Labour voting areas will get hit least .. or might even benefit?

From the figures on that BBC website, the lower bands (A + B) will pay less and above more. So make what you will of that.

Aliwood, you've hit the nail on the head as to why this is a bad tax. What's much better is to tax the unimproved value of a site (aka Land Value Tax).

Co-incidentally, it is worth knowing about Land Value Tax, as all the major parties seem to be starting to making noises about it now.

[Andy Hunt]

. . . like the future?

2163 ought to do the trick!

Phew! It's hot in here . . .