2014 a big year in UK oil and gas

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 04 Mar 2013, 17:11

RalphW wrote:VW is bringing out a smaller car with a nominal 95mpg rating.

That's not the "Up!" is it?

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 04 Mar 2013, 18:43

The current petrol up gets about 70mpg.

There are plenty of rumours but very little firm evidence of a
diesel, diesel hybrid or plug in diesel hybrid version returning up to
230mpg either this year, 2014 or 2 years ago.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/scoop ... e-xl1-tech

Believe it when you have just (re)filled it at the fuel station.

Post by **clv101** » 04 Mar 2013, 19:18

The new generation Formula 1 engines are aiming for 40% thermal efficiency. Even he best current diesel road cars are only getting 35%.

ujoni08 · Post by **ujoni08** » 06 Mar 2013, 13:09

VW were going to make an L1 (1 litre/100KM) with a tandem seating arrangement:

But market research showed that people want to sit side-by-side, so they stretched it to form the XL1:

The diesel-electric hybrid setup (800CC turbo-diesel 2 cylinder with electric motor and 7-speed paddle-shift gearbox) from the XL1 may now be used in the VW up! city-car:

Here's the exploded model of the 800CC Tdi with slim electric motor:

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 06 Mar 2013, 13:12

Try copying the IMG links to the right of your screen, ujoni08

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 06 Mar 2013, 13:13

RalphW wrote:The current petrol up gets about 70mpg.

I thought as much. 70mpg is shite for such a small, light vehicle in 2013, isn't it?

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 06 Mar 2013, 15:38

It's a lot bigger than the original mini, and has a far more powerful engine.

I used to drive a 1litre Mini 4 speed automatic. It changed up into 4th gear at 24 mph. I once got it up to 62mph downhill with a following wind. Mind you, with zero crumple zones, bare metal all around and unassisted drum brakes on all wheels it was scarily fast.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 06 Mar 2013, 20:29

It would be an interesting race for geeks and peak oil types to have to go 100 miles on just one gallon of fuel. Winner is the first one to cross the finish line without running out of gas.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 06 Mar 2013, 21:47

vtsnowedin wrote: It would be an interesting race for geeks and peak oil types to have to go 100 miles on just one gallon of fuel. Winner is the first one to cross the finish line without running out of gas.

My car would do it in 2 1/2 hours with fuel to spare. - but not much spare if it was a US gallon.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 07 Mar 2013, 13:09

RalphW wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: It would be an interesting race for geeks and peak oil types to have to go 100 miles on just one gallon of fuel. Winner is the first one to cross the finish line without running out of gas.
My car would do it in 2 1/2 hours with fuel to spare. - but not much spare if it was a US gallon.

OK but you are not the only one that can squeeze out 100 miles out of a UK gallon. The question is who can do it the fastest!Such a race with fat enough purses to attract attention would result in developing cars that are better for todays world. You might have to specify a minimum passenger compartment volume and driver weight to keep it from becoming a powered bicycle race.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 07 Mar 2013, 15:57

The problem with racing and fuel efficiency is simply that drag goes up with the square of airspeed. Above about 40mph it swamps all other factors in fuel consumption.

Weight is only an issue in acceleration and decelleration - and a heavy car needs bigger tyres producing more rolling resisitance.

An SUV at a steady 40mph will get better mpg than my car at a steady 80mph. That is why racing cars have very low profiles - drag increases with frontal area - and that it is not a practical shape for an on-road general purpose family car.

This sort of hypermiling is already done, but the requirements are to minimise mpg for a given minimum average mph

Oh and for powered bicycle races the record is over 10,000mpg at 15mph average.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 07 Mar 2013, 23:06

RalphW wrote:This sort of hypermiling is already done, but the requirements are to minimise mpg for a given minimum average mph

Oh and for powered bicycle races the record is over 10,000mpg at 15mph average.

Perhaps you meant maximise mpg for a give mph. And yes I don't doubt that bicycles can go far but what is practical for a couple with their child in the winter?

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 08 Mar 2013, 09:53

RalphW wrote:...An SUV at a steady 40mph will get better mpg than my car at a steady 80mph. ....

No it wont. It wont maintain 40mph in 6th gear and being in top gear at low revs improves MPG dramatically

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 Mar 2013, 10:04

My car has a high ratio 5 speed gearbox and a 1.2l diesel engine. On level ground it will sustain 40mph in 5th, about 1200rpm. Under ideal conditions, it returns 120mpg.

A 6 speed might need to run at 45mph to be most efficeint, but most SUVs have massively overpowerful engines. They won't stall at 40mph.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 08 Mar 2013, 10:11

vtsnowedin wrote: It would be an interesting race for geeks and peak oil types to have to go 100 miles on just one gallon of fuel. Winner is the first one to cross the finish line without running out of gas.

The thing is, this question produces very different answers depending on a combination of the HP of the engine and how many passengers the vehicle is designed to carry.

Generally speaking the bigger the HP, the better the fuel efficiency by HP. But, this only energetically makes sense if you have a higher number of passengers. An example of the above would be to compare, say, a 125cc motorbike against a 4 seater 1500cc car. The motorbike will give, possibly, as much as 115mpg with just the one rider and no passenger. However, although the car may only give, say, 45mpg with a single driver, it will still do 35mpg with the driver and three passengers which translates to 140mpg for each individual person in the car.

I imagine a bus gives even better mpg.

The single, biggest and lowest-tech solution to fuel consumption is to have all single occupancy journeys done by motorbike and/or bicycle (for short journeys) and all multiple occupancy journeys done on large, multiple occupancy vehicles. A proper, nationally managed and publicly owned transportation network, in other words. This will, though, require that we radically re-engineer our economies and societies in ways that are currently difficult to imagine. But, that's because humans are rationally lazy and only imagine alternatives when alternatives are unavoidable.

Our understandable obsession with trying to get lower mpg on single or low occupancy vehicles is all very well, but is also an expression of part of a larger problem of the continued pursuit of individualism. A pursuit that we can no longer afford. Things are not yet quite bad enough for people to realise that, though.